To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

[bigoldscaredycat]

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

So theoretically at least, there is no reason why this person being referred to as a woman should sicken you any more or less than it would if it was a mild mannered trans woman.

It's sickening because he used his male penis to rape a baby. And people are just so desperate to show how right on and progressive they are by calling him 'she'.

A 'mild mannered', as you put it, transwoman is no more of a woman than this bloke. But I am willing to use to preferred name and pronouns of someone who is going about their life peacefully and not hurting anyone. Because I'm nice like that, and I believe in give and take. It doesn't mean I actually believe they are a woman.

I don’t care if he’s fully transitioned. He’s still a he, even with a labia fashioned out of his testes. He still raped a baby. That’s a man raping a baby, not a woman. A MAN.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

This article from June states The ministry has confirmed there are no female-born transgender inmates in men’s jails.

Is this because there have been no convictions of transmen or because when push comes to shove tg men know how violent many men in men's prisons really are?

Is it then acceptable for them to say they are in fact their biological sex depending on the circumstances?

In my earlier posts I never defended her/him... And gender re assignment surgery gives a male to female patient a vagina and breasts and a clitorus.
So from a basic anatomically point yes she /he is anatomically female.
I don't see why saying that is offensive?
As I said earlier this is an extremely dangerous individual.. Irrespective of gender/surgery /anatomy... And the report says that they would not be released.
A female with these psychopathic personality traits would be very dangerous too.
We need to house anyone with this pattern of behaviour and risks to the public in specific special units where it would not matter what they identified as

from an anatomical point of view, regardless of the surgery carried out, this is still a man. I won’t use incorrect pronouns to make people feel better. As if being a woman was merely about having a clit and tits

Storminamug, you say: This person no longer has a penis so cannot rape anyone in the female prison.

They tried castration, both surgical and medical, as treatments/punishments for sex offenders in the past. The idea lost favour when it became apparent that rapists, devoid of their weapon of choice, will use implements or just their hands.

The issue is male sexual violence.

When you carry on: Yes they could be violent towards other prisoners but so could other female prisoners you're ignoring the very significantly greater strength of the average man compared to the average woman, and the very much greater propensity for violence in men. Upthread someone provided the figure that 14,000 men are currently in prison for sex offences, but only 120 women.

The MRA talking point "Oh but women do it too" really doesn't wash, you know.

Anatomically doesn't mean what you think it means

@jellybean

Removal of male genitalia does not change the sex of a person. A surgically created hole - no matter how neat- is not a vagina. In my job I've castrated countless animals of various species. This does not make them female. I've scrubbed into a penile amputation (due to cancer) and various perineal urethrostomies. The animals did not become female. I've ovariectomised or ovarihysterectomised hundreds, probably thousands of queens (female cats) and bitches. They did not become male. I've seen freemartins- they are female - and done total mastectomies for mammary cancer in bitches- they did not become male. It's the chromosomes that count.

This rapist was, is and always will be a man.

theredjellybean
That may well be but if this person and I were grown into the same unmarked grave, only to be found 500 years from now, whoever found us would take one look at the skeletal frame and note "man and woman found in grave".

As my great grandfather used to say, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

I didn't say they were a woman, I said they have some female anatomy.

This person no longer has a penis so cannot rape anyone in the female prison. Yes they could be violent towards other prisoners but so could other female prisoners. Should prisoners be segregated by size and strength too? This is not the same as someone self identifying as male (but not transitioned) being in a female safe place. This is someone who has undergone a sex change being placed in a prison which relates to their physical gender with other criminals.

There is no such thing as 'physical gender' since gender is a set of societal rules and cultural norms associates with a person as a result of their biological sex.

No people can't be segregated by size and strength that is unnecessary and unlikely to work however they are and can continue to be segregated on the grounds of biological sex since that sorts by size and strength by default. Although I do know you were asking that question in a disingenuous manner to make me seem unreasonable.

They have no female anatomy. We don’t have ‘fuck holes’ we have complex sexual organs designed to birth children ffs.

You can’t copy that on a bloke

theredjellybean
They have fake tits and a surgical hole which if not dilated, cleaned and prodded at multiple times a day will close, as any surgical hole would.

If I were to get the tattoo of an ak47 it wouldn't make me a sniper

from an anatomical point of view, regardless of the surgery carried out, this is still a man. I won’t use incorrect pronouns to make people feel better. As if being a woman was merely about having a clit and tits hmm

YY - some out themselves by insisting on a surgical procedure or two can make a woman. And look at his history - how could anyone in their right mind defend him on anything, never mind pander to his delusions? He thinks he's done nothing wrong - the guy is a dangerous psychopath.

By all means those who defend him have him living with you, but don't dare demand and inflict him on us - we don't want him in any shape or form. We want him locked up away from where he can do harm - with other men.

Amalfi that is true. But they do have the external female anatomy while they are presently alive.
Genetically always will be male...

And just to add - or repeat - that was some serious male pattern violent behaviour they exhibited and so yes, I think they belong with the male population of the prison. Since they violated the rights of the young so viciously I am not very open to the rights of the perpetrator's 'feelings' - it's prison, not camp - suck it up buttercup.

I reckon a better word than anatomical, jellybean, would be "superficial".

Anatomical implies a lot more change than what actually happens.

theredjellybean
But the don't. They have a surgically produced hole which needs to be prodded at to dilate to avoid it heals itself

Nope, still nothing female about their anatomy.

Well labia and clitori and perineum is termed 'female external sexual anatomy' in my greys anatomy book... So even if it is a made one it is an outwardly female anatomy.
Honestly please go back and read earlier posts, I am not and never would be defending this psychopath.
I am not saying they should not be in jail forever. Just making the point that sadly they are recognised as female due to full transitioning and have had the surgery.

What about trans women who did non violent crimes while male? Where should they be?
Personally I'd advocate for some kind of isolation prison for rapists and child abusers irrespective of what they id as. But I don't think under current situation we can start differentiating on grounds of the crime.

His record again - thx Amalfimamma

Some facts people seem to be missing.

He raped a 3 month old baby boy

he has been caught prostituting to fellow cons in the male prison

He married a male inmate before transing and divorced a year later when husband was released.

Been caught using drugs

threatening to kill a female guard.

has been found with a knife and another male inmate stabbed them.

Desousa also admitted to having killed a three-year-old child at age 11, although he was never criminally charged.

A 2010 hearing heard that Desousa felt they had done nothing wrong.

From the info I can gather they had surgery in April 2018

So from a basic anatomically point yes she /he is anatomically female.

I think you'll find that's not so, theredjellybean. A neovagina constructed from either a section of bowel or an inverted penis is cosmetic surgery. It's not female anatomy. It doesn't function like a vagina, though it may relieve gender dysphoria.

Plus "anatomy" refers to the entire body. Male and female bodies are very different. Our build, proportions, even our internal organs and systems differ in the two sexes. We're a sexually dimorphic species

Sexual dimorphism is the condition where the two sexes of the same species exhibit different characteristics beyond the differences in their sexual organs. The condition occurs in many animals and some plants. If my skeleton - or yours - was dug up 200 years ago any anthropologist could easily identify our sex.

Human beings cannot change sex.

I am truly disgusted by the posters calling a person with a functioning penis, a penis they RAPED A BABY with, female . By law you need a penis to rape. ONLY MEN HAVE A PENIS. Fucking Handmaids

But they do have the external female anatomy while they are presently alive.

No they don't. They have a surgically created fistula, fashioned from their penis and testicles.