To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

[bigoldscaredycat]

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

Really interesting debate... nauticant... Why do you feel she should be in a male prison?
Is it because they committed a crime while male or because of the type of crime

*And this criminal will still be taller, stronger and more muscular than the females in that prison - and a physical altercation between an MTF and a female much more one-sided.

There is a reason we separate male and female offenders in the first place.

Toe.. Thank you I didn't know that.

I think this particular individual should just be classed as incredibly dangerous.. Never release... Doesn't matter if male or female or bloody unicorn

We can't conclude that because she was once anatomically male she is a greater threat to others

Why do people keep coming out with these patently untrue statements? There is no need for "anatomically". This person is male. Male people are a greater threat to others. It's a proven fact.

Whenever I read about things like this, I wonder how long this phase of society will last. It's a complete nonsense of course, XY and XX chromosomes will always be the sensible deciding factor.

It's a bit like the over-prudishness of the Victorians and their covering up of table and piano legs as naked ones were considered indecent. We look back in amazement at that attitude, and future generations will do the same with all this trans nonsense.

Men cannot choose to be women.
You are not born into the 'wrong' body.
By law a rapist is a man.
By accepting lies as truth more MRA groups, including TRAs , will have ammunition to say 'look! You women are actually as bad as men' you don't need protection by law, protected rights or single sex facilities because we're all the same.

Can some of you not see how serious this is?!

This is male violence. Not the work of a female or some shadowy, faceless monster. Plain old MALE VIOLENCE.

And in this country, a number of newspapers are today reporting that a male transgender prisoner sexually assaulted female inmates days after being jailed in New Hall women's prison in Wakefield.

The Metro

Because theredjellybean while I think that a transwoman can be considered to be a woman for some purposes, I do not think this should be for all purposes.

Once you're dealing with such a dangerous male prisoner, then the interests of the community come first, and their choice of gender can be put to one side. At that point, the right place for them is where can their very significant threat can be best contained. Since there are very few such women prisoners compared to male ones, then an annex to a dangerous male offenders facility would make sense, would be easier to manage, and would be cost effective.

It is a fact that men commit more sexual and other violent acts than women

Yes true, but making the way people do or don't behave part of your classification system is surely a bit "questionable".

Would a mild-mannered trans woman who behaves as stereotypically female as you can get, be more of a woman than this individual?

Would their claim to be a woman be less 'sickening' to you?

All I am suggesting is is that if you answer yes and yes, or even no and yes, well, are you not bringing behavioural stereotypes into things.

Well anatomically she is female... Not male.
Genetically she is male... But anatomically she is not.

is the perpetrator a male who raped a baby and since then has undergone FULL transition to female?

No because it is physically impossible for anyone to change their sex. No-one has transitioned from male to female.

I have never posted on any trans or self id thread thus far, though I have my own strong opinions on the matter, but after reading this I cannot not post.

This depraved criminal is NOT A WOMAN. Whatever he identifies as now, whatever he says, whatever he has surgically removed or hormonally added, he is not and never will be female - he will be a biological male who has been medically altered to physically MIMIC a female.

This person is a danger to children and to women and should not be exposed to either. Ever.

If the issue of where to house trans prisoners is such a huge problem now then prisons specifically catered to them need to be built. Or separate wings in the prisons of whatever sex they identify with.

This political correctness and fear of being seen to be bigoted is nuts. The people who are actually being discriminated against are biological females, whose rights, safety and identity are being eroded.

There is no such thing as a full transition from Male to female. Humans cannot change sex.

I agree nauticant... The issue here is the individuals risk to others.. Male /female or whatever... Personally I think violent offenders should be housed in special prisons where they have zero chance of hurting anyone

“Well anatomically she is female”

No. Women are not men with their penises removed. This is a man with modified male genitalia.

Well anatomically she is female... Not male.

No.

1. a 'neovagina' is not a vagina

2. anatomy covers the entire rest of the body too

Transwomen are male. They have male anatomy. The small minority who physically transition have male anatomy with some plastic surgery.

You were born in the 70s but consider yourself a second wave feminist? Alright, I was born in the 80s but consider myself a suffragette!

You can mimic being physically female all you like but it will never make you truly female.

Would a mild-mannered trans woman who behaves as stereotypically female as you can get, be more of a woman than this individual?

No. Nobody who is born male can ever become a woman, and vice versa. Taking hormones and having surgery change how a person looks but the chromosomes stay the same.

The transactivists have scored a spectacular own goal with me. I didn't know much about this issue at all until I started reading some threads about it on here. The more I thought about it the more I began to realise that my previous attitude made no sense at all. I had assumed it was an issue that was closely connected to gay rights. I now see it isn't. The more I read, the more I think about this, the more I conclude that the T doesn't belong with the LGB.

I can't get over the fact that we all know nobody can literally change sex. (Well, strictly, those of us who have looked into this know that - some people with minimal scientific knowledge seem to assume people can change sex, which is one of the problems.) I can't think of a single other characteristic where people would accept it without question if somebody just said they had it, when they clearly didn't.

'I identify as black' said by a white person.

'I identify as disabled' said by a person who is in excellent general health.

'I identify as a child' said by a 60yo.

'I identify as fat' said by someone with anorexia.

'I identify as Napoleon' said by a person with schizophrenia.

'I identify as someone who can fly' said by someone high on drugs.

Every single one of those people would be challenged and as necessary given psychiatric treatment to help them come to terms with reality.

And yet ....

'I identify as a female and because I am sexually attracted to women that makes me a lesbian' said by a biological male. This one we are all expected to accept without question. Why?

I am sorry for people that aren't happy, be they a depressed person due to bereavement or gender dystopia. At the end of the day you can't bring back the dead to life and you can't change biological sex.

Anatomically is another one of those words that actually has a meaning

Superficially, they have had plastic surgery to resemble the opposite sex, not to become it.
On a macroscopic level, this persons skeleton remains the same. The shape of their skull and pelvis divulge their sex. Their lungs retain the VO2 max that advantages/disadvantages their sex.
Histologically the liver of this person hasn't changed. Their muscles have the same twitch speed, their brain is just as plastic as it was before.
At the microscopic level, nothing has changed. Every cell in their body remains genetically sexed.

I'm afraid "I identify as a child" is already happening. Disturbing as that is.

But yes, I agree totally with your point.

The shape of their skull and pelvis divulge their sex.

You can shave the nose, jaw and forehead, the actual skull of a male is bigger than that of a female, it can't be made smaller without making the brain inside smaller.

I know, TopToToe. However, I think that one will never get general acceptance because almost everybody can see that allowing an adult to self-ID as a child and 'play' with children is a total no no.

For some reason, identifying as a woman/man is seen differently.

You can't disguise smell either, males have a smell other males can't pick up in the way females can.