To use the word "naughty"

[speedymama]

DTS are 3 yo and go to nursery. This weekend they chastised me and DH for using that word. They did something that I had asked them not to do and I told them to stop being naughty. DT1 retorted with "don't say naughty, I'm not naughty, you can't say naughty". So I responded with "well stop misbehaving then!"

I spoke to the nursery about this and they confirmed that they are not allowed to use the word naughty because it labels the child rather than the act. Now I'm all for positive parenting but there comes a time when you have to just tell how it is. I don't call my boys name but I do point out their bad behaviour and I also praise them when they are being good. In fact, I praise more than I chastise.

As a child, when my parents told me that I was being naughty, I took notice. Now my 3yo DTS read me the riot act. Well, I will not be dictated to by a toddler and if that makes me a dinosaur in terms of modern day parenting, so be it.

So am I a recalcitrant, anachronistic, old fashioned dinosaur who refuses to indulge the latest fads in parenting as dictated by a bunch of pinko liberal, arm wringing, bleeding heart busybodies?

arm wringing makes it sound like liberal pinkos are going around giving people chinese burns

that's not the way the revolution works is it?

speedymama - but if you call your child "naughty" or call its behaviour "naughty", you are labelling your child in a potentially counter productive way. Far, far better to tell them why the behaviour they are engaged in is inappropriate - "stop pinching - you are hurting me", "stop whining - I find the noise intolerable", "stop playing football in the corridor - it's late and you will disturb the neighbours' children who go to bed earlier than you", etc etc

Oh to be perfect.

My children are fecking doomed, I tell you.

GiantSquirrelSpotter - I have to say I agree with cheekymonk, I don't think all nursery staff are that dim (but God knows I'm no fan of nurseries).

I did wonder about arm wringing, is it like bell ringing?

I hate the 'pinko liberal..blah blah blah' stuff. It puts peoples backs up because it's saying that if you actually spend any time analysing the effect of your parenting on your children then you're some kind of hysterical busybody.

surely they've just been told that at nursery and are repeating it, without the entymological bickering that's goiing on here?
no offence, but i don't think that nursery staff are the sharpest pencils in the box, presumably they've been told not to call children 'naughty' in a memo (for the complex reasons discussed here) and it's been translated via a 20something nursery nurse and a pair of 3-year-olds delighted to get one over on mummy as 'you must not use the word naughty'.
seems like a big fat fuss about nothing (apart from your rather irritating labelling of parents who might care about this as lily-livered pinkos... )

i loved catchgin my parents out doing something i'd been told was off-limits, it wouldn't matter whether i'd got the wrong end of the stick or not.

On a serious note (honestly) I have actually learned quite a bit from ds1's nursery teachers. I am surprised at myself to find that I am not too proud to pick up tips from them - not everything they do is my style, but they are brilliant with ds1 so it doesn't hurt to exchange ideas. For example their policy of holding the transgressing child's hand while reprimanding gently, to reassure the child that it is the behaviour and not the child which is at fault. It may not give you that staisfying "I'm angry, I want to see punishment" buzz that some parents seem to primevally to crave, but it does a much better job of modifying bad behaviour and promoting the child's understanding of right and wrong, IMO.

I hate the idea of telling small children that they're making you sad/upset/unhappy. That feels so utterly wrong to me. Surely you're just setting them up to feel responsible for your feelings. I don't want dd to ever have to feel responsible for my feelings, what a burden for a little person.
I tell dd that what shes doing is naughty, if it is! Cannot for the life of me understand why if she's throwing toys/being rude etc I cannot tell her that doing so is naughty, it is naughty ffs!

Yes Boco

It's actually quite worthwhile to reflect on one's parenting technique occasionally

"no offence, but i don't think that nursery staff are the sharpest pencils in the box"]

erm Aitch, that is actually fairly offensive

nursery worker here

I wasn't intimating that all nursery staff are thick. Just that nursery management finds it easier to treat them as if they are. Just as schools find it easier to treat all parents as if they are. Just as the government finds it easier to treat their citizens as if they are.

It seems to be the default attitude when dealing with any organisation nowadays. They go for the lowest common denominator.

bored - surely, though, you want your children to grow up feeling responsible for the feelings they inflict upon others? Since that is the basis of moral conduct. And how better to do so than with the mother, the most trusted person in a child's life?

ds was labelled naughty by family members and his nusery! at very young age and is still very challenging which i think partly comes from being told he is naughty-he just lives up to his label.i try to say what i dont like about what hes doing.my mum my say-'stop that its naughty' and id try to say 'its not knid to push your sister'and say why.
btw we have a thinking step.
i use to work in a preschool and we also did this but never forced our views on the parents.

oh I disagree, I think it is very important to explain to children the consequences of their actions.
i.e. if you do this, it hurts my feelings or it makes me very cross because X.
how else will they learn about consequences and about other's feelings?

Boredveryverybored - I tell my DD1, who has SNs that it makes mummy sad when she smacks her sister / friends. It seems to me the most logical way of explaining things to her. I tell her that pushing is dangerous. I reinforce the schools rule of 'kind hands' and so in line with kind hands I talk about making people happy so when she is "naughty" i talk about it making people sad. I don't think I'm damaging her or doing anything really wrong, I'm hopefully making her understand something in a clear way?? Who knows, I'm just doing my best really and hoping it's OK!

LOL at craving a primeval punishment buzz

Yes yes yes!

btw aitch i do find your post re nursery workers offensive.

If my DD thropws a toy I would say 'no, no throwing, it's dangerous to throw' and then move her on to something else. She has been what is called a 'caster' her whole life and always thrown everything. I try and make her understand why it's not acceptable to thropw rather than just label it naughty.

LOL! so why aren't you working in a nursery any more, frank? come on... you can't have it all ways.
there's hatrick's neice uncovering all sorts on one thread and now we're expecting nursery staff to be able to tutor children in 'it's not the word that's bad per se, it's the attaching of the word to your friend henrietta that is, ur, wrong, well, not wrong exactly, but not right... so you can by all means call the fact that she is throttling you by the neck 'naughty' but do not call her 'naughty'...'?

much more likely the nursery nurse will say 'tarquin, don't call henrietta naughty, we don't use that word here' and hence the translation to speedymama.

I suggest you go over to Nannyjob & start a "Nursery workers aren't the sharpest pencils in the box" thread!

You're tedious, Speedymama.

Stop being tedious, Speedymama.

Does either of those make you feel better, SM?

we saw my inlaws for the first time last week and the step mother kept calling my 6 month old naughty, how can you be at that age? and hes actually brilliantly behaved. what a wierdo

lolol. i've just been going round a zillion nurseries to find one that would have room for dd. they're all booked up, regardless of how bright or otherwise i've found the staff. what do i care whether they've got a phd or not, they just have to be good and kind to dd? tell you what, nursery workers are huffy, that's for sure. but to be perfectly honest having been round about ten in the last two months i haven't found the staff there to a danger to Stephen Hawking. just my experience, of course...