To use the word "naughty"

[speedymama]

DTS are 3 yo and go to nursery. This weekend they chastised me and DH for using that word. They did something that I had asked them not to do and I told them to stop being naughty. DT1 retorted with "don't say naughty, I'm not naughty, you can't say naughty". So I responded with "well stop misbehaving then!"

I spoke to the nursery about this and they confirmed that they are not allowed to use the word naughty because it labels the child rather than the act. Now I'm all for positive parenting but there comes a time when you have to just tell how it is. I don't call my boys name but I do point out their bad behaviour and I also praise them when they are being good. In fact, I praise more than I chastise.

As a child, when my parents told me that I was being naughty, I took notice. Now my 3yo DTS read me the riot act. Well, I will not be dictated to by a toddler and if that makes me a dinosaur in terms of modern day parenting, so be it.

So am I a recalcitrant, anachronistic, old fashioned dinosaur who refuses to indulge the latest fads in parenting as dictated by a bunch of pinko liberal, arm wringing, bleeding heart busybodies?

Absolutely speedy, it's PC gawn mad and we'll all come to a sticky end

cheekymonk - I too find that the easiest way to make my daughter behave is to show her my own sadness/disappointment at bad behaviour.

Yesterday morning she was being a pain and I told her how upset she was making me and that I didn't her with me if she was that whiny, and shut her (very briefly) in the bathroom where she was bothering me (she can open the door herself). She let herself out after 15 seconds, and it worked wonders, she was an angel after that and behaved beautifully all day, even in a Japanese restaurant at lunchtime.

Interesting Anna8888. Nice to hear someone else back their theory up!

lol @ spittle

Speedymama if you read any Enid Blyton you will note that there are LOTS of things we no longer say to children

"You are a wicked child!" comes up a lot in the Secret Seven bit I avoid it where I can

Speedymama - you said "I agee with not labelling children but I don't see what is wrong with saying "stop being naughty" as oppose to "you are being naughty"."

How can you stop being naughty, if you are not already being naughty? So how is saying 'you are being naughty' different from 'you are naughty'?

You are still labelling the child.

I think the 'best practice' advice [weak smile] is to describe the behaviour as naughty - so 'stop pulling X's hair- that is a naughty thing to do', rather than 'stop being naughty'!

In fact I think it is Gess, who says that it is even better not to tell someone to stop doing XYZ, but instead tell them to to ABC.

It's apparently similar to me telling you to stop thinking of giraffes - it is almost impossible to do, consciously. If I tell you instead to think of elephants, thinking of giraffes never crosses your mind

So be precise in your expectations and formulate a positive message, so X come here please, would be better than 'don't play with the remote control'!

I am intrigued by this. Do 3/2/1 year olds really get the distinction between naughty behaviour and being told they are naughty? I totally understand the labelling thing and I make an effort never to tell my dses they are naughty but if ds1 (2.6) pushes ds2 (for example) I do say "Pushing is naughty - you mustn't do it". Does he understand that it's the behaviour I'm labelling as naughty or does he just hear "blah blah naughty blah blah"?

Now you see I am Irish and we don't have any of this nonsense.

"You are a very bold boy" usually works wonders!

soapbox - how about "stop pulling X's hair - you are hurting her"?

lapin, that Twiglett talks my language

Anna - even better

What language is that Jools, Olde Englysshe?

JoolsToo - whhaaaaat?? Why are you a gibbering wreck? What were you labelled as when you were a child - if this is what you mean.

Speedymama - I didn't mean to say that YOU had called your twins naughty as such. I was trying to point out why a nursery might not use the term. The nursery was probably correcting other children - children label other children as much as adults do. I was trying to explain the theory behind the concept. Being a twin myself, I know that people are very quick to label a mischievous twosome as 'terrible' or 'naughty'. If this is continually reinforced by others then it can affect a child's behaviour. I don't believe that using the word 'naughty' is wrong per se. Just the context in which it is used.

If you are interested then this is what it is based upon:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy

Am I right in thinking you are upset by this as your dt's turned to you and told you that you were wrong to say the word naughty? Isn't this more an issue about your children answering you back and that you feel the nursery has encouraged this? If they're being 'dictated' to then it's natural that they would repeat it.

Personally I would just chill out and carry on doing whatever you were doing anyway if you don't agree with these other opinions. Sod those that judge. We all do things differently.

i never say "You are a naughty boy" I always say "That was a naughty thing to do!"

But ds1's first use of the word NAUGHTY was "ds2 is naughty mummy!"

Similarly, whenever his brother throws up or possets etc, ds1 would wail "Ds2 has done a gross!"

3 and 4 year olds are not so hot on grammar as you would like to think!

soapbox - .

It's quite hard work getting used to systematically describing to children the feelings that behaviour (good or bad) provokes in other people... but I'm definitely a convert to the school of thought that says that that is the way to emotional literacy, for want of better jargon.

I suspect that the nursery has gone in for the baby out with bathwater thing because they estimate that their staff can only understand a simple message.

Much the same as the government telling us never to drink in pregnancy - assume everyone's thick and you get the message across better.

That thread was good. Twig was right, a "you are naughty" once in a while isn't going to influence a child. But if they are continually told they are, then it will.

Nursery staff can't have any exceptions because it ll gets too complicated. Like schools with exceptions - the logistics are too much to cope with.

When DD1 pushed someone at school I actually didn't use the word naughty with her. I explained that pushing was dangerous and made her friends and mummy sad. I thought that would get my point across better than telling her she was naughty.

I've never really sat and thought about it but I do seem to explain why I don't want her to do something rather than tell her she's naughty. For example, she drew on the table I said 'no, you don't draw on the table, paper only or no pens'.

She flicked her sister in the face and I told her that it wasn't nice and made DD2 upset and kind hands make people happy'.

I probaly do use the word sometimes but as I say I'm more likey to explain why her behaviour is unacceptable rather then just label her naughty.

The nursery are VERY NAUGHTY for telling you how to raise your own children.

hate naughty. hate hate hate silly, especially used in context of child feeling fearful etc.

doesn't mean i'm not guilty of it sometimes but try not to use these kinds of words at all.

what i hate the most is the 'doesn't prepare them for real life' argument.....life can be harsh, a totall secure base prepares children to be resilient, not vice versa. children who are absolutely secure in their 'good' not naughty nature, and the fact that their feelings are valid and not silly are MORE not less resilient to bullying and teasing imo and ime.

deja vuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

oooo, sorry is there another thread.

agree littlelapin, that's the worst of the lot imo.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, I'm sure most of the mums on here were all called naughty by their own parents - I know I was! Do any of you honestly think it did you any harm? When 6yo DSS is playing up, his mum and dad have no compunction about telling him he is being naughty. Once he has calmed down, he apologises (he is soooo polite!) and it's forgotton about 5 mins later! And lets face it when you are feeling harrassed by kids playing up, trying to cook tea or juggle some other tasks you are not really going to take the time out before you speak to think "hmm, should I say being naughty or are naughty or mummy is getting a bit cross" because it's natural to come out with what ever is at the top of your head? Perhaps in calmer circumstances you might have time to consider what to say to your lo, but when will that ever happen .
I would be more disturbed at (as I once heard neighbour across the road at old house shout at their 4yo) "pack that sh!t in you f*ing toerag".
So compared to that "naughty" isn't exactly a hanging offence. Whether you use that word or not is no reflection on your skills as parents, everyone has their own approach which best suits them, you all strike me as responsible parents, unlike the parents of the 4yo (I've since heard that their 2 kids have been taken into care!).

furrymummy....we were all called naughty by our parents.....how many adults do you know who you can honestly say have really good self-esteem? there really aren't that many around.

I agree with Twiglett on that other thread too. My DTS receive a lot of praise for doing even the simplest things. However, I feel it is just as important for them to learn that when they do something wrong it is pointed out to them. After all, if a child only ever hears that they are wonderful, what happens when they go out in to the world and somebody says something negative to them?

I see the point about couching it in terms of "when you do that it makes Mummy sad". However, sometimes, circumstances call for a blunt rebuke without using the softly, softly reproach. After all, who ever heard of a boss at work saying to his staff "when you behave like that it makes me really sad"?