To use the word "naughty"

[speedymama]

DTS are 3 yo and go to nursery. This weekend they chastised me and DH for using that word. They did something that I had asked them not to do and I told them to stop being naughty. DT1 retorted with "don't say naughty, I'm not naughty, you can't say naughty". So I responded with "well stop misbehaving then!"

I spoke to the nursery about this and they confirmed that they are not allowed to use the word naughty because it labels the child rather than the act. Now I'm all for positive parenting but there comes a time when you have to just tell how it is. I don't call my boys name but I do point out their bad behaviour and I also praise them when they are being good. In fact, I praise more than I chastise.

As a child, when my parents told me that I was being naughty, I took notice. Now my 3yo DTS read me the riot act. Well, I will not be dictated to by a toddler and if that makes me a dinosaur in terms of modern day parenting, so be it.

So am I a recalcitrant, anachronistic, old fashioned dinosaur who refuses to indulge the latest fads in parenting as dictated by a bunch of pinko liberal, arm wringing, bleeding heart busybodies?

Yes, I totally agree, we should call our children names to prepare them for school or else they will crumble totally

younger the better IMO, I started taunting ds as soon as he was born and I intend to progress to pinching him, giving him Chinese burns and stealing his dinner money when he is not much older

it is the only way to get them ready for real life

Yes that's very true. I suffered from that for years - however that was because i was severely bullied at school. I was a confident outgoing child until I went to Junior School. My DSS is also has a very confident and outgoing personality.
Low self esteem is a common problem but there are many factors involve, it is a little unfair to say that it is solely due to your upbringing.

LOL at F&Z

Speedymama it isn't a choice between telling your children they are "X" (naughty/bad/stupid) and being a drip

You can be as much of a disciplinarian as you like but you don't need to telling your children they are inherently naughty

It's all about language innit

Franny, would you be offended if I said that your response was silly?

In my school we would not use naughty to describe a child. I am not saying that I think it is a wrong word to use in parenting in general, I just feel that it is not appropriate for a non-family member to apply it to a child.

yes and it will be your fault when I go and put clown shoes on and drive a very small car whose wheels fall off

MP, I asked them to stop being naughty (verb), I did not tell them that they were naughty (adjective).

Yes it is all in the language which seems lost on many unfortunately.

no speedymama you are very muddled there

the use of the word naughty is exactly the same in both of your examples - it is used to describe the children

"you are naughty" "you are being naughty"

same thing

"hitting people is naughty" - slight difference. All a bit hair splitting though IMO. It isn't the greatest word to us, full stop.

Of course there's a difference between the two uses of the word.

Actually, I don't like the 'it makes mummy sad' approach at all. I used that expression the other day and dd was really quite perturbed. She kept bringing me things and saying 'are you happy now?'.

Personally i think language is really important, it's how a child shapes their world and their understanding of themselves - and it's good to look carefully at what you say and how you say it.

I do react by saying 'that's naughty!' when surprised by lipstick on walls etc, but its not particularly great practice, and if i have time to think about it, i won't. Not using the word doesnt' mean i'm going to ignore the behaviour - or be too soft - I will definitely communicate that i'm cross and she'll know why and what she needs to do to help me to wash it off.

If its used all the time, for any behaviour that the parent doesn't particularly like, it's unhelpful and lazy at best.

FZ, totally disagree.

Using being confers the doing hence it is a verb. Totally different to saying you are naughty where the person is being described.

I found this to illustrate my point.

If my kids did something naughty i would tell them. I would not put up with being answered back to either by 3 year olds telling me what i can or can not say to discipline them. You are the parent and what you say goes - above and beyond what any nursery teacher tells them too.

Agree, Sigaloid

Agree Becky, Boco

I think the main misconception on this thread, is people thinking that anyone who doesn't call their child "naughty", doesn't discipline them at all, in any way

Actually, the main misconception on this thread is that those of us who use words like naughty are negatively labelling our children (even though we are describing their behaviour)and setting them up to be adults with low self-esteem.

Giantsquirrelspotter I have to say I find your last post re nursery staff offensive. You intimate that they are thick and need things dumbing down themselves. I am very grateful to those staff for looking after ds to give me some sanity and him a change of scenery plus a stimulating environment with other kids. They do a good job and as they long as they give ds respect, care and attention I am happy. I don't care if they are Einstein or not!

Speedymama I don't feel that you are really listening to the argument which makes Morningpaper sad but I think you made your position pretty clear by deciding that this approach was "dictated by a bunch of pinko liberal, arm wringing, bleeding heart busybodies" in your OP

FrannyandZooey: "I think the main misconception on this thread is....."

Speedymama: "Actually the main misconception on this thread is....."

Says it all, really.

I'm not a fan of the word naughty, there are lots of other ways to show your disapproval of a certain kind of behaviour.

I don't do a naughty step either, it's the thinking step here!

surely it's hand wringing
not arm wringing?

Who was it mentioned Chinese burns?!?