WIBU to offer this to dh's niece?

[Alicezander]

My husband was the only one in his family to go to university - his parents didn't go, though both would probably have been clever enough to go had it been financially/socially possible at the time, and his brother and sister didn't go. His sister has one daughter, our niece, who was never very academic, and left school shortly after GCSEs and had two children in her early 20s.

We don't see my husband's sister or his niece or great nieces very often, but we hear through my MIL that both dh's great-nieces (who are now in year 4 and year 6) are doing really well in school.

One of our daughters is currently at The university and we were wondering whether it would be a good idea to offer for her to take dh's two great nieces on a tour of the university in October/November, so that they can get an idea of what university means and what it's like. Nobody in their immediate family (parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents) has gone to university, so I suppose it might show them a world they might not previously have considered.

Do you think it would be ok to offer this idea of a day out for her children to dh's niece? We don't want to appear at all rude, or like we're suggesting that she can't help her children aim high by herself.

My sister left school at 16 without even taking her GCSEs and had her first child at 19. That child is starting University this September. Don’t assume that people from poor working class backgrounds with no qualifications don’t want the best for their children.

I think it would need to be a day out in the university town rather than a visit to the university. I first visited Cambridge (where I ended up studying) when I was about 10 and I remember deciding that day that I wanted to study there. It was so beautiful and old and grand, with the river and the cobbled streets - I loved it.

Obviously a trip to the chapels and river in Cambridge is more of a sightseeing trip than a visit to the UL (though actually I was fascinated by the idea of a library with every book) and a lecture theatre. Lots of university towns run science or arts festivals with children’s events - maybe a trip to the town (and to visit your daughter’s room?) and a science event or something would be collectively informative and interesting? Sometimes university towns have places marked up where famous people lived or studied and if there are some interesting ones then that could be an option too?

Definitely think it can be done in a fun “let’s visit DD” way, rather than a “we’re here to broaden your children’s horizons” way.

Alternatively, let people post opinions without trying to create drama around yourself Betty

The biggest problem that the lower classes in Britain have is a feeling of inadequacy as of some how places like universities and opera houses are not for them and they are not welcome there.

The reason why there is so little social mobility in Britain is because those at the bottom encourage their children into this mentality of keeping themselves ignorant out fear of the 'posh'.

How extraordinarily lacking in analytical capability one would have to be to think so.

I’d do it in a fun let’s go and visit way. Going to visit a cousin at oxford at the age of 6 or 7 was what made me want to go to uni (not that I got into oxford)

OP did you go to university?

Alternatively, let people post opinions without trying to create drama around yourself

No. You start calling posters names, expect to be called on it.

Post opinions, not insults.

think it would need to be a day out in the university town rather than a visit to the university

I agree, or rather a combination of the two. Cambridge is so small that walking around the town you’re seeing the university, Bristol - not so much.

Nice idea but sounds a little smug to me I'm not saying you are but it doesn't sound very friendly to ask them to allow you to do this.

No. You start calling posters names, expect to be called on it.

No. Philistine is not a ‘name’ but a description of a mindset. It’s perfectly apt in this context.

How would OP even take them on a tour of the university unless it's an official open day and they're allowed to access it? Sounds like her DH isn't a student anymore?... you can't just stroll into the buildings on a whim.

No. Philistine is not a ‘name’ but a description of a mindset. It’s perfectly apt in this context

How about victim-playing whiners?

@FlyingMonkeys

How would OP even take them on a tour of the university unless it's an official open day and they're allowed to access it? Sounds like her DH isn't a student anymore?... you can't just stroll into the buildings on a whim

Did you actually read the OP? She's not suggesting her bloody DH takes them - she's talking about her daughter who is a current student.

And she specifically recognised the problem of not being able to walk round a university once you've left - that's why she thinks the daughter should take them now, rather than when they're 15/16.

If you're going to criticise, at least read what you're criticising.

How about victim-playing whiners?

An observation in precisely the same vein as ’mean-spirited name-callers’.

Not interested in your drama.

Good luck OP.

@Ericho universities generally now need key cards to access most areas in them. I was a mature student 9yrs ago with a child. I wasn't allowed to take her into the buildings.

An observation in precisely the same vein as ’mean-spirited name-callers’

Your posts and their meaning are obvious to everyone reading them.

Stop posting insults and people will stop calling you on it.

I was the first person in my Dad's family to get a degree (I was the first to do 6th form too) and in my mum's family only Grandad had, my parents would have been incredibly offended had anyone suggested a visit the way you have in your OP, I still remember the argument when I asked my brother if he wanted help applying, sorting student loans etc because how dare I assume they weren't capable of helping him (they weren't as it turned out). They were always very happy to let my younger siblings visit me for a bit of sightseeing though, so maybe rethink how you would word the offer.

The biggest problem that the lower classes in Britain have is a feeling of inadequacy as of some how places like universities and opera houses are not for them and they are not welcome there.

This sort of comment describes pretty much exactly why 'the lower classes' (as you so inelegantly put it) avoid people with attitudes like yours those places like the plague.

Meh, still think it's a moot point. Children are rarely allowed access to university buildings due to health and safety. That's no different to adults accessing a school without consent. Educational options are far more inclusive than they were years ago (student loans are higher though). Opera houses are still not at the end of every road be because opera isn't popular (sex shops, language schools aren't either - not a common interest to the wider public).

Bottom line - OP's Dd can doubtfully tour an 8 & 10yr old around the local uni via her daughter. Plus OP needs to have a mental rethink if she's of the belief that 'those kids' won't get to go to uni unlike hers...

WAY too young at that age. IME many universities offer tours and some even offer Student for a Day, which is a free program where prospective students will spend the day attending classes with a current student in the program they're considering. This gives them an opportunity to see what's involved in the classes. Current students volunteer to take prospective students around. I volunteered to take a prospective student for a day when I was at college and university.

Meh, still think it's a moot point. Children are rarely allowed access to university buildings due to health and safety.

Rubbish. I work at a university. I could bring children in tomorrow and take them anywhere at all on campus if I so wished. Ditto with all other visitors. Nobody would give a shit and there are kids there quite a bit as they have parents who are students. Universities aren't some tightly guarded tower. In many cases, their buildings form part of the town itself.

BIL is an English teacher, and throughout out dc's childhood he and SIL would always buy the dc's books like Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, Black Beauty, The Secret Garden, you know the sort of thing.

Really? Those are all children's books! Was this paired with other behaviour or did you really get offended by your children being given age-appropriate classics?

OP, I think it sounds like a lovely idea but perhaps they're a bit too young? In a couple of years maybe.

It is n’t necessarily a good idea to go to university, it’s expensive and often does n’t improve job prospects

It is n’t necessarily a good idea to go to university, it’s expensive and often does n’t improve job prospects

Study upon study proves that going to university has a huge benefit in terms of earnings across a lifetime, even if you don't out-earn your peers at the beginning. If a child is academically gifted, it absolutely is something to promote from quite a young age. Degrees promote critical thinking and open-mindedness that make you see the world a bit differently.

It's not as expensive as people think. It's more like an additional tax paid on earnings than a proper loan.

Most people in my year at school did not go to uni. The difference in our lives is pretty extreme- it's not just about income, it's about perspective and outlook. I would not be the person I am today had I not gone to university. Might sound snobby but I don't really care.

I think they're too young for a tour of the university to be meaningful in that way. Which means it really would come across a bit 'look, oh disadvantaged ones, you too can benefit from our side of the family's cultural and educational largesse'. Tbh.

Visit them. Show an interest. Chat with them about what they'd like to do when they're older. Mention 'dd went to X and had a great time. She can tell you more if you're interested'. Chances are their 'uneducated' parents will manage to support their children's education all by themselves, and ask themselves for guidance where they don't know something.

My ds1's very, very bright best friend in his 'gifted and talented' class (cringe, I know, it's called that, I'm not in the UK) at grammar school equivalent is the son of a cleaner and stepson of a labourer. I can just imagine how they would be if I decided I had to start a campaign of building up this lad's cultural capital.