WIBU to offer this to dh's niece?

[Alicezander]

My husband was the only one in his family to go to university - his parents didn't go, though both would probably have been clever enough to go had it been financially/socially possible at the time, and his brother and sister didn't go. His sister has one daughter, our niece, who was never very academic, and left school shortly after GCSEs and had two children in her early 20s.

We don't see my husband's sister or his niece or great nieces very often, but we hear through my MIL that both dh's great-nieces (who are now in year 4 and year 6) are doing really well in school.

One of our daughters is currently at The university and we were wondering whether it would be a good idea to offer for her to take dh's two great nieces on a tour of the university in October/November, so that they can get an idea of what university means and what it's like. Nobody in their immediate family (parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents) has gone to university, so I suppose it might show them a world they might not previously have considered.

Do you think it would be ok to offer this idea of a day out for her children to dh's niece? We don't want to appear at all rude, or like we're suggesting that she can't help her children aim high by herself.

Definitely do it. Who cares if it comes across patronising- it is likely to help their future. Yes, you get exceptions but kids whose parents didn't go to uni are at a disadvantage when it comes to deciding whether to go to uni and choosing where to go. Having been to a state school in this country, I can also say that teachers aren't always the best help either. I would have loved this myself.

so that they can get an idea of what university means and what it's like

I honestly think that their school will address it comprehensively at the appropriate stage, and they will very likely have much broader horizons than you might expect as they go through school.

I know you mean well, OP, but they are a bit young and it could be construed as being a little patronising.

A few sociable, informal chats would be a nice way to do it?

Actually laughing at the suggestion of buying them books. Who says they don’t already have hundreds of books? Just because parents didn’t go to uni doesn’t mean they don’t buy their children books fgs!

I honestly think that their school will address it comprehensively at the appropriate stage, and they will very likely have much broader horizons than you might expect as they go through school.

That depends where they go to school. My school was shit and did not give help really, despite this being right in the middle of New Labour's drive to get 50% of the country into uni. No advice on which unis are good, no help with open days, no uni visits, left to write UCAS statement on our own, little flexibility with predicted grades to help students get into best unis. The list goes on. I didn't have parents who went to uni either so I was on my own. I used to spend all my break times reading prospectuses and I ended up going to an RG uni but at the time I didn't know what the RG was- it was a stroke of luck. I now help mentor young people from lower income backgrounds and many of them are facing the same lack of help from school as I did when I went.

Also whereas not going to uni in the 70s or 80s could still lead to a good career, there are increasingly fewer options for school-leavers now and therefore encouraging them to see higher education as normal from a young age is never a bad thing.

I think it could easily be done in a non-patronising way, so that you have a fun day out which incidentally means they see DD’s university. I don’t think they are too young.

My DD is 7 and has seen our university because we live close by. To my DD university is just the normal thing you do after school and we all just assume she will go to university.

There is a big barrier to accessing higher education if you don’t have any experience of it. The inequality in society is self-perpetuating unless people provide opportunities to broaden children’s horizons.

Leaving it until later to see university as an option actually doesn’t do them any favours. When they are with peers who have assumed for their whole life that they will go to university, beginning to see it as an option at 14/15 may leave them with self doubt. The earlier that you can see that the world is yours to explore, the more you really believe it.

I don’t understand your interest in your great nieces if you don’t see them very often? The idea is rather condescending and a little smug. You are at pains to point out that various family members did not go to university - I assume you did? University is not necessarily the be all and end all and these days is extremely expensive.

OP a wonderful idea. Try the uni's widening participation dept to see what they run for children and check out the Children's University programme (of venues like swimming pools) and where kids have a convocation and everything!

Link: www.childrensuniversity.co.uk/

I think it's a nice thing for a brother to offer his sister for her DC on the understanding that no one be will be offended if they decide against.

DH needs to speak to his sister though no one else and no texts

No. Too early for a start. If they continue to show academic promise their school will encourage them at the appropriate time.

Also, unless you are planning on paying for their university education I’m not sure it should be you raising their expectations.

Umm why? They'll no doubt be very aware of the opportunity to go to uni after finishing 6th form/college if they wish to? Are they being raised in a cave or under a bush? It's very standard to be fair.

Sounds like an excellent , kind and thoughtful idea . Bizarre and inverse snobbery from some posters here that it is in any way patronising - not sure why they they think it is better to keep horizons narrow .

In this situation I don't see anything wrong with coming across as patronising. The biggest problem that the lower classes in Britain have is a feeling of inadequacy as of some how places like universities and opera houses are not for them and they are not welcome there. I wish I could say that I am sure that their school would take them or that their mother would but I doubt it. I don't see any harm in making the offer. If theirither is genuinely open to improving their lives she will probably take you up on the offer. If she is too proud to accept help then I suppose her daughters won't benefit much from external influences as much as she can help it.

I know you want them to have aspirations but that comes from their main role models and to a lesser extent their schools not a distant aunt.

Given how many go to uni and never end up paying back their student debt or using their degree we should only be encouraging those that actually need a degree for their career choice and will actually be working.

Pp I think it's far more patronising to think the kid wouldn't think they could go to uni based on the fact that nigh on 50% of the young academic population does these days. It's no longer 'middle class' vs standard these days. Vocational is actually the route to go as it means getting started from scratch with experience and no student loans.

A lot of universities have events on for children so it might be better to invite them along to something of interest.

Bizarre and inverse snobbery from some posters here that it is in any way patronising - not sure why they they think it is better to keep horizons narrow

This 100 times. Education is what enables social mobility and a university education is valuable whether or not you end up doing a job that is specific to it.

If you think that going to a bog-standard state secondary school will a) instil students with the self-confidence to think uni is for them and b) give them good and helpful advice about where to apply and what to do, some of you are living in a dream world. There is also a big difference between comps and private/grammar. At the latter, kids are told from the outset that they are talented, able etc. At the former, they are often expected to not do well. There are of course some very good state schools that do encourage kids a lot but there are equally some bad ones that breed low aspirations that have a lifelong impact. If you don't have family members who went to uni either, where are you meant to get your role models and inspiration from?

I think it's a lovely idea but I'm not sure if would mean a huge amount to them at that age. Worth a try though. A best it will be inspirational, at worst a nice day out with a relative.

@Racecardriver I've got a degree but I've never had any inclination to visit an opera house 🤔 does that mean im a pleb?

If you think that going to a bog-standard state secondary school will a) instil students with the self-confidence to think uni is for them and b) give them good and helpful advice about where to apply and what to do, some of you are living in a dream world.

I went to one of the lowest achieving comprehensives in South-East London and they did exactly that.

It sounds like a nice idea but only if you have a relationship with them. You could present it as your daughter's idea, if she has been getting to know them.
It's unlikely they will get to visit a university any time soon otherwise, it may be too late by the time they get to the age of going to open days.
People are silly to have so much trust in schools. Schools can't give children aspirations without support from home. Many schools won't even try. It's like saying what's the point of reading with my child, that's what school's there for.
It's not patronising - the nieces will get exposed to other career options via other family members too of course.
Agree with others that it would seem odd if you don't know them well though.

@flyingmonkeys If you have been, had a look and said not for me that's fine. I'm not a huge opera fan myself but obviously I do my best to keep an open mind to new experiences in the off chance that I may actually discover something that I can enjoy. The problem is when working class children don't even bother to check out things like university or opera (even on a really superficial level) without saying that's not for the likes of me. The reason why there is so little social mobility in Britain is because those at the bottom encourage their children into this mentality of keeping themselves ignorant out fear of the 'posh'.

I went to one of the lowest achieving comprehensives in South-East London and they did exactly that.

Then you are very lucky. I also went to a fairly low achieving comprehensive and they did nothing. My sister went to a grammar school and the difference in help they got was astonishing. Why not give these girls who are clearly bright a bit of a helping hand and a chance? I would have given my right arm for something like that when I was at school.

I know you mean well but it would come across so badly. I mean would you actually say you were 'showing them a world they might not previously have considered'.
She may not have been to University but your niece knows what one is and it's insulting to think she hasn't already considered that her children could aspire to go.

These days everyone and their dog has a degree its not a secret unobtainable world only special people like you and your daughter can access.

Also to add you could take them to something specifically for children at the uni - most will run some special events each year