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Original poster

To think the anti trump marches are a waste of time

345 replies

yearyeahyah · 12/07/2018 09:34

I don't like him or agree with his policies, but what good is it going to do walking around with a giant helium balloon of a baby?

Loads of horrible world leaders from the middle East that are doing far far woorse and they get a royal visit over here with no one batting an eyelid. Just smacks of double standards to me.

OP posts:
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glintandglide · 12/07/2018 13:02

Resistance I read your thread thinking about the reception the wind rush generation got in the 50s- I’m sure people were concerned about their schools and GPs but let’s be honest, they were also just racist. Look how successful that immigration has been

Dragongirl10 · 12/07/2018 13:03

Personally as he is not our leader and who governs the US is out of our control and frankly none of our business, l cannot see the point of these protests.

We have entertained many despots with dreadful human rights records over the years without protest, so why people suddenly are so up in arms about Trump, l cannot understand. Yes he is very dislikeable but he was voted in!

The balloon is crass at best and says more about those who want it than about Trump.

BarbarianMum · 12/07/2018 13:06

At what point will it be worth protesting against Trump I wonder? When he forcably separates children from their parents as a punishment for seeking asylum? When he supports the far right? When he lies and lies again? Or do we wait until women in the States lose their right to end an unwanted pregnancy?

Or do we wait for the State of Gilead to be announced?

Dragongirl10 · 12/07/2018 13:07

RESISTANCEISNECESSARY...very good post.

InfiniteSheldon · 12/07/2018 13:15

I agree totally, it's lots of self righteous posturing by people who are quite happy to ignore similar behaviour in those whose politics that don't disapprove of

This

French2019 · 12/07/2018 13:46

Khan has already made it clear that they can fly a similar balloon for him.

GoodFortuneAttendThee · 12/07/2018 14:01

ResistanceIsNecessary

Excellent post.

ResistanceIsNecessary · 12/07/2018 14:02

But your continued labelling of people's views as "irrational" only serves to underpin what I am saying!

Some people have been adversely affected by immigration. Some people have been positively benefited by it. But for those who have negative experiences, the examples I have given you are all real life and the results of real people's views of immigration. It's easy for people to dismiss what they've never seen themselves. You may disagree and you may have good and sound reasons for doing so - but telling them they are "irrational" isn't likely to encourage them to come to your position, is it?

As I said upthread, dismissing someone doesn't automatically enlighten them. What it does do, is serve to create an "us and them" divide, which is ripe for exploitation by extremists, and reinforces the belief that if politicians aren't interested in their views then they'll use their vote as a protest. It's exactly how UKIP made such a showing, and it's a significant element of why we have ended up with Brexit. It's also a huge reason why the US now has Trump as president.

When people feel marginalised, when they feel that they are being ignored, sneered at and disregarded, it's foolish to assume that they'll stand by passively and do nothing about it.

helzapoppin2 · 12/07/2018 14:10

Resistance, what you are saying is fast becoming the unsayable, which is worrying. I heard John Humphries try and say the same to Tony Blair on the radio the other morning.
It seems that believing in controls of any kind labels one a racist.

ResistanceIsNecessary · 12/07/2018 14:14

I should emphasise at this point that my own views on immigration, on Brexit and cultural change are quite liberal and certainly at odds with the people I know whose experiences and views I have shared further up!

However the point I am trying to make is that just because I don't agree with them, their views or the reasons for their beliefs, doesn't mean that it's OK for me to dismiss them.

It's exactly this type of attitude which has led to the current trend of no-platforming, which IMO is extremely dangerous.

chilly32045 · 12/07/2018 14:16

I agree. People are so narrow minded. Regardless of whether you like him or not he is the president of the USA and it's far better for us to have him on side.

I cannot believe Sadiq Khan has actually given the go ahead for this baby balloon. How immature!

loveyouradvice · 12/07/2018 14:17

Of course the balloon is brilliant - its funny - its irreverent and it makes an important point....

And as importantly, it enables Britain to host Trump (which we have to as he is the US president and we need to ensure reasonable relationships) WHILE DEMONSTRATING what the public think of him...

A very funny very British compromise!

Mookatron · 12/07/2018 14:17

Well it's not becoming the unsayable is it. We're leaving the EU on the strength of it.

What Resistance is saying strengthens the argument for the march (as she says).

The question remains how we discuss this stuff with people so that it doesn't turn into harmful action that isn't in the country's best interests - like Brexit. We've turned into a nation of people who don't think and talk about things but just react. Leaving the EU does not solve all those problems and it never did. Maybe the Trump Blimp is a similar action but at least it doesn't screw the country for the next hundred years.

How do we actually TALK about these things? Since we don't seem to trust politicians to do it any more?

GoodFortuneAttendThee · 12/07/2018 14:21

Ironically, refusing to acknowledge views that you don't agree with as being drawn from legitimate actual experience may in the long run lead to the rise of the very factions you think you are preventing by refusing to acknowledge the views in the first place, because disenfranchised people will turn to those who are willing to listen.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/07/2018 14:24

Under what legal grounds could the Greater London Authority deny the balloon?

As for waste of time, well, it's our time to waste isn't it? But actually I don't consider it a waste of time at all. I'd rather be on the right side of history.

derxa · 12/07/2018 14:31

I actually feel embarrassed and ashamed that Trump has to be shunted in helicopters like this. People can protest if they like but I honestly don't know what they're protesting about. As for the Trump balloon. It's pitiful. The protests are being organised by Owen Jones. That says it all.

OyWithThePoodles · 12/07/2018 14:32

'It's our time to waste'. Love it Kitten.

I'm going, not really because I think it will change anything in a global sense, but because it will make me feel less helpless, less powerless, less afraid in the face of what is, without doubt, the rise of fascism and the far-right and I'm terrified of where the normalisation of Trump is leading us.

Just being with like-minded people is a comfort and an inspiration when everything seems so bloody awful.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/07/2018 14:37

I'm ignoring Owen Jones involvement. He annoys me.

Absolutely Oy. It's a chance for some solidarity. At home fighting fascism and the effects of it can be lonely and dispiriting. I frequently get abuse for the work I do. I'm looking forward to meeting others who feel the same way I do.

cardibach · 12/07/2018 14:40

derxa if, as you say, you honestly don't know what they're protesting about you need to read and think a bit more. He is abhorrent. He is racist, misogynist and narcissistic. And he’s Head of state of one of our allies, so we need to make it clear what we think of that.

WittyJack · 12/07/2018 14:40

I also know people who feel like the ones described by Resistance. I don’t agree with them, but I can see why they feel that way. In fact IMO what they are actually protesting against is a failure to invest in the region or to give any sort of a shit about the people there by multiple governments since ww2. But it becomes about the immigrants because that’s the soft target.

It’s precisely because David fucking Cameron and the remain crew didn’t bother canvassing opinion much outside their cosy London bubble that they didn’t realise how deeply feelings ran. If the campaign had been aimed more at showing people all across the country, but esp England and Wales, why Britain needs to be in Europe, for all areas not just London, it could have been very different.

derxa · 12/07/2018 14:53

He is racist, misogynist and narcissistic. That description could possibly be applied to the vast majority of heads of state that have visited the UK and have been given a state visit. He just has no filter when he speaks or Tweets.

Setpeace · 12/07/2018 15:15

So... Your happy to fight fascism, the so-called fascist presiding over a free country, but your not interested in fighting communism or socialist or dictators? The people of America need a voice? What about the forgotten people of North Korea? No one cares about them because its not fashionable.. And China is ok too because its communist. Even though its a place of unimaginable human rights abuses... Hmm

Setpeace · 12/07/2018 15:17

I think being on the the right-side of history is supporting the opening up of North Korea and praying that country gets peace.

cardibach · 12/07/2018 15:25

Setpeace
Protest against Chinese government
Against Northern Korea
Against Erdogan
Just a quick google. I think you’ll find lots of protests against visitors to the country who have groups who disagree with them.
This is getting so much publicity just now because a) it’s happening now and b) Trump has stirred up so much negative feeling around the world that it is newsworthy.