To want to tell this parent to tell his child off for one

[fatfatwaterrat]

Name changed for this as it's quite outing as I've spoken about it to a few people in rl, and I post personal things mn.

I have a friend who I met a couple of years ago. We have daughters the same age and developed a friendship through them.

I've always struggled with their parenting style as I feel they avoid provoking her by telling her off or actually disciplining her.

This has developed into her becoming quite physical with her baby brother, my daughter, her mother.

When we are together at my house, she is well behaved. I'm not strict, but I am firm and fair and don't just let children be mean to other children or ignore me and refuse to do something. She had learned this and is a delight with me.

A few times my friend had invited my dd round for a play date and I have dropped her off and then found out her dh was watching the children.

Now I won't lie, I hate him. I can't stand him. Partially because of all the midnight 2 hour phone calls of her crying down the phone about how he has treated her. The fact he never ever does anything around the house of with the children (unless someone is watching), is racist towards her and treats her like she's a simpleton. I hate the fact he is pushing stereotypes on his baby son and preschooler daughter and that this is rubbing off on my child. He comments when she wears a dress and says she looks like a 'proper girl', he takes dolls off his son and says 'I'm worried about this boy.'

I truly can't stand him. But my friend is completely alone in this country, and feels that being with him in a niceish house, is better than not being with him because of the shame of being a single parent on a council estate.

Despite wanting to tell him what I think of him every single time I see his face, I am always friendly and civil for the sake of my friend.

But now I'm struggling to hold my tongue. His daughter has become vicious. She hurts people and then laughs about it. She had pushed my dd down the stairs, scratched her with a butter knife, hit her more times than I can count, pulled her lips until her gums bled, bit her and made her bleed and more.

I always always speak to my dd about if she wants to see her anymore as she seems to be sad and hurt. But she maintains they are best friends and sometimes nice. It hurts me to see my dd who isn't a meek person at all, she just doesn't hurt people and won't hit back, be hurt so often by someone who is supposed to be her friend.

But what is more difficult is that her parents do nothing! They just say 'oh dear' and do nothing. Dd told the father his dd pushed her down the stairs and she was crying and wanting comfort and he told her off for telling tales. Every time she hurts her, she comes and tells me and if he is there he calls her a snitch or a tell tale. And I'm so fucking angry. They are 4. They aren't old enough to be sent upstairs to play by themselves. Especially when one of them had a penchant for hurting the other one.

Today we were at an event and everyone had prizes, his dd snatched my dds prize off her and refused to give it back and said she would put it in the bin. I was running a stall and shouted over to her to give it back as it wasn't hers. My dd was crying and trying to get it back and saying please give it back. Her father was standing there and just said 'oh dear. Stop having a tantrum' to my daughter because she was upset. I left my stall and got the toy off her and have it back to my dd and said we will put it away as it's causing problems and she was fine with that. Friends dd had a screaming fit and he got shitty with me and spent ages letting her hit and scratch her mother who was breastfeeding the baby, because she was angry and all he did was say ' oh dear, she didn't want to share'.

Then he dragged her over to us and said 'I'm sure you'll be fair and let her have the toy as she really likes it' I laughed and said no it's not hers and she can't have other people's things just because she wants them. Cue meltdown which was my fault as I refused to give into her demands.

I'm getting sick of it. I can't trust him around my dd. He makes my skin crawl. I hate how he treats the children. I am angry at my friend for allowing he children to witness him smashing the house in anger and treat her like shit. I'm angry that she is allowing her daughter to be an absolute brat who is so far from the sweet little girl I met 18 months ago.

I either, cut this friendship off, only accept meetings and play dates at my house, tell him to parent his fucking child and stop letting her make demands and hurt other people.

I'm so angry. I wish my dd didn't want to be friends with her anymore and then I wouldn't feel so torn between continuing or stopping.

Take charge. Stop your daughter being around this man. Have the child to yours but don't let her go there, and be firm about what's best for your child. Not easy but you can still be there for your friend

I would definitely only agree to play dates at yours. The friendship might fizzle out but you can’t allow your DD to go round there to be a punching bag.
Must be awful for your DD

Protect your DD and keep her away from this family. You must put your child first.

Cut the friendship off. Your dad shouldn't have to make that decision herself. The friendship is damaging her. As parents sometimes we have to decide what's best for them whether they like it or not.

I wouldn’t allow this man anywhere near my child. Nor would I continue the friendship between the girls. You have to put your DD first and protect her from what is a very unhealthy friendship. She’s 4, she doesn’t have a rational view of whether or not she should continue to be friends with this girl so she needs you to decide for her, before she gets some really unhealthy ideas about physical abuse in relationships. Very sad for the poor little girl but I don’t see what you can do here except to look after your daughter. And since I don’t see the friendship as at all sustainable I would also say something to the friend as to why you don’t want to arrange any more play dates. And tell her that you will be there for her if ever she needs you.

We had a problem a few months ago where this girl and another boy at preschool were being rough with my daughter. And she was doing what the teaches tell them to do which is to hold up a hand and say 'no thank you'. Obviously that only works if the other child listens!

We sat down with dd and explained to her than if someone was hurting her or making her do something she didn't like and they wouldn't listen to her, she was allowed and must push them away from her. It sorted everything out a lot at preschool and the staff agreed.

I'm trying to teach her to hold her own. I don't want her to be a bully, but she should never feel that she cannot protect her own body because of rules. She is allowed to push people off her or away, and if they refuse to stop she can hit them!

This has worked very well with the other child and preschool and their friendship is much better now. But with the other girl, it's just worse. If dd pushes her off, she'll start scratching her face and pulling her hair.

I dont want to raise a victim who thinks she must do what a grown up says and not protect her self! Or be around parents that won't protect her from being hurt.

They’re 4, cut the friendship off. Stand up for your DD.

Oh and report them to social services and get your poor friend some help. Those poor children shouldn’t be witnessing that violent behaviour.

I think at 4 you can just comfortably ghost this friendship and find other people for her to play with. I'm surprised you haven't done this already!

Seriously?? You want your 4 year old to make the choice? She is 4! Why don't YOU be the adult and stop putting your child into this abusive situation. YOU are the one putting your daughter in this situation she is hardly arranging playdates and driving over to them herself.

Thank you for all the replies.

I am having to pull away from the friendship slightly. It used to be give and take. But lately it's all take. Asking me to have her kids for an hour, but not coming back for 5 hours. Of just constantly having her children or running her playgroups and voluntary things she has agreed to but doesn't physically have the time to do them.

And I'm more resentful that she will call me and it's an emergency and I'll look after two for year olds and two one year olds for hours and then find out that their father is sitting at home! But he can't look after both kids.

I'm sad because she needs help. But it's actually affecting my mental health now. I don't have more children because I struggle with 2, and now I spend so long struggling looking after her children and groups too.

It's very hard to say no to someone who is struggling, but I'm starting to struggle now too!

Yh thanks for that mickeysminnie. She asks to see her and play with her, so I force it on her?

I don't want her to make the choice. I said I wish she didn't want to and then I wouldn't feel bad about it!

But thanks for that 👍

If this man had hit your daughter you wouldn't think twice about ending the friendship but because it is a child who is hurting your DD it has somehow become acceptable. You say you don't want to raise your DD to be a victim but you are teaching her that this child's behaviour is ok by continuing to allow her to be in a situation where she will be hurt. Hopefully this kid will grow up to know right from wrong, 4 year olds need specific guidance in this area which she is not getting. That's awful but you can't continue to allow your DD to be hurt. She sounds like a great kid, and you sound as though you are doing a great job but this is something that can't continue.

Well the answer is simple that you don’t leave your child in his care and you speak up for your child when they are treating her badly. If you are in their house you don’t have to let them play upstairs. Tell them you need to supervise because there are always problems when they go off and play together.

Just stop seeing them. She's 4 years old. After hearing they're busy over and over she'll forget about it.
Make new friends. Keep away.

I would absolutely cut contact. COmpletely.

Mickeysminnie no I encourage poking dogs and playing with matches 🙄

You have nothing helpful to add except trying to make out I'm negligent and immature. So do fuck off with your ignorant judgment.

I think you sound like a great parent! And a lovely friey. But you also can't be the martyr and sacrifice your own MH.
Get SS involved for your friend, let her know you'll always be there for her and her DD but only once she has gotten some help (especially for her DD). Never let your DD go near that man again

I agree with PP - take charge. Protect your daughter and stop this nonsense now.

That poor child - her parents will ruin her. I can’t believe parents behave like that - it’s just shocking.

I'm ignorant? You are the one who is putting your child into a situation where she is repeatedly getting hurt. What would you like me to say? Your 'friend' is an adult and can make her own decisions, your daughter is 4 and relies on you to make decisions that are in her best interests. So stop trying to be a martyr and stand up for your child.

I am actually shocked that you have allowed your daughter to be attacked/bullied/abused so many times.

You really need to realise that this is a terrible, terrible dynamic and as the parent you need to set the boundaries and model to your 4 year old what is and what isn't acceptable.

You must never ever leave her with that family again. I appreciate you feel for the mother but by accepting the situation you aren't helping... you are just leaving your daughter, who should be your first priority, very very vulnerable.

I know it's hard to say no to your DD if she wants to go to the friend's house, but I think you could find a way to tell her that you no longer think it's a good idea. You aren't stopping her from spending time with her at all - just making sure it is where you can make sure she doesn't get hurt.

You are going to have to say no to doing these groups for your friend. If she doesn't have the time, she will just have to stop doing them. Tell her that you can't do them after a certain date.

As for looking after the kids - well - leaving them for 5 hours is just taking the piss. If she asks again I think you should ask if their father is available "Oh is John working then?" for example. If she says he can't look after both of them, then I'm afraid you might have to ask why you should be expected to look after 4 children when he can't even look after two - and they are his OWN children. If you are persuaded to look after them, make sure you have a definite pick-up time, and make it clear that if this is not adhered to, it will be the last time.

I know you want to support your friend, but not at the expense of your well-being or that of your daughter - you could tell your friend this too. If you don't do these things then this situation can last as long as you allow it I'm afraid.

Your friend is an adult, choosing to stay in a toxic relationship.

Your DD is entirely dependent on you. You are letting her be bullied by a spoilt child because of her mum and your need to support her. You truly can't help some people, and your friend sounds like one of them.

Let this friendship go and don't look back.

I agree that my dd shouldn't be alone there. It has been a couple of months since I have left her alone with them as I'm not comfortable with it anymore. I feel she doesn't share that it's him that occasionally watches them, and now even worse than she also doesn't pay enough attention or protect them.

I always always get involved and stop her being hurt and will tell the other girl off and try and talk to her about not hurting people.

I often preemptively prevent these situations, but it actually feels like no I shouldn't have to.

I have given so much to her and I want to help her, but actually I can't continue doing this because as much as it sucks to admit it, I don't feel I am doing my child the service she needs.

I need to reduce the friendship. They are going to difference schools which I actively chose. I want and need to reduce contact and keep it casual and low.

It's going to be hard explaining to dd why we won't see them every other day. But I know it is the right thing to do. Even if it is hard to not help someone who needs it.

Remember the safety drill on aeroplanes: in an emergency, put your own oxygen mask on first, so that you can really help other people. If you're too altruistic, you end up helping nobody. By all means quietly express your concerns to the staff running the playgroup (they've probably got wind of things anyway, and you're reinforcing your suspicions) and let them deal with it, while you do right by yourself and your own family. Sadly, you may have to "phase out" this friendship while your DD is too young to set up her own social engagements.