To want to tell this parent to tell his child off for one

[fatfatwaterrat]

Name changed for this as it's quite outing as I've spoken about it to a few people in rl, and I post personal things mn.

I have a friend who I met a couple of years ago. We have daughters the same age and developed a friendship through them.

I've always struggled with their parenting style as I feel they avoid provoking her by telling her off or actually disciplining her.

This has developed into her becoming quite physical with her baby brother, my daughter, her mother.

When we are together at my house, she is well behaved. I'm not strict, but I am firm and fair and don't just let children be mean to other children or ignore me and refuse to do something. She had learned this and is a delight with me.

A few times my friend had invited my dd round for a play date and I have dropped her off and then found out her dh was watching the children.

Now I won't lie, I hate him. I can't stand him. Partially because of all the midnight 2 hour phone calls of her crying down the phone about how he has treated her. The fact he never ever does anything around the house of with the children (unless someone is watching), is racist towards her and treats her like she's a simpleton. I hate the fact he is pushing stereotypes on his baby son and preschooler daughter and that this is rubbing off on my child. He comments when she wears a dress and says she looks like a 'proper girl', he takes dolls off his son and says 'I'm worried about this boy.'

I truly can't stand him. But my friend is completely alone in this country, and feels that being with him in a niceish house, is better than not being with him because of the shame of being a single parent on a council estate.

Despite wanting to tell him what I think of him every single time I see his face, I am always friendly and civil for the sake of my friend.

But now I'm struggling to hold my tongue. His daughter has become vicious. She hurts people and then laughs about it. She had pushed my dd down the stairs, scratched her with a butter knife, hit her more times than I can count, pulled her lips until her gums bled, bit her and made her bleed and more.

I always always speak to my dd about if she wants to see her anymore as she seems to be sad and hurt. But she maintains they are best friends and sometimes nice. It hurts me to see my dd who isn't a meek person at all, she just doesn't hurt people and won't hit back, be hurt so often by someone who is supposed to be her friend.

But what is more difficult is that her parents do nothing! They just say 'oh dear' and do nothing. Dd told the father his dd pushed her down the stairs and she was crying and wanting comfort and he told her off for telling tales. Every time she hurts her, she comes and tells me and if he is there he calls her a snitch or a tell tale. And I'm so fucking angry. They are 4. They aren't old enough to be sent upstairs to play by themselves. Especially when one of them had a penchant for hurting the other one.

Today we were at an event and everyone had prizes, his dd snatched my dds prize off her and refused to give it back and said she would put it in the bin. I was running a stall and shouted over to her to give it back as it wasn't hers. My dd was crying and trying to get it back and saying please give it back. Her father was standing there and just said 'oh dear. Stop having a tantrum' to my daughter because she was upset. I left my stall and got the toy off her and have it back to my dd and said we will put it away as it's causing problems and she was fine with that. Friends dd had a screaming fit and he got shitty with me and spent ages letting her hit and scratch her mother who was breastfeeding the baby, because she was angry and all he did was say ' oh dear, she didn't want to share'.

Then he dragged her over to us and said 'I'm sure you'll be fair and let her have the toy as she really likes it' I laughed and said no it's not hers and she can't have other people's things just because she wants them. Cue meltdown which was my fault as I refused to give into her demands.

I'm getting sick of it. I can't trust him around my dd. He makes my skin crawl. I hate how he treats the children. I am angry at my friend for allowing he children to witness him smashing the house in anger and treat her like shit. I'm angry that she is allowing her daughter to be an absolute brat who is so far from the sweet little girl I met 18 months ago.

I either, cut this friendship off, only accept meetings and play dates at my house, tell him to parent his fucking child and stop letting her make demands and hurt other people.

I'm so angry. I wish my dd didn't want to be friends with her anymore and then I wouldn't feel so torn between continuing or stopping.

I do understand how, little by little, you have ended up here but it’s time to make a change. I truly believe your daughter will feel relieved after a while to be protected from this child. You have done the right thing in ensuring that she will be going to a different school in September. She will make new friends and come to see that friends do not hurt each other.

They will start different schools in September, so this friendship will probably fizzle out, unless you actively chase it (don't!!)

It's hard to give up the people-pleaser role, but you are making a good start, by recognising it, and getting angry. I think it's really common for women, in particular, to feel that they have to make things "right" for others. The truth is, you can't, you shouldn't and it's not your responsibility - it's theirs. You can't give this child a better life, and you can't save the mother. She is making the choices for herself and her children.

Just accept that there is only so much you can do, and it's not your role in life to make things nice for everyone, with no regard for your own well-being. My gran used to say " Be kind to yourself, it's not your fault when it rains on a picnic" . I try to remember that!

i think you can divorce two things in your head.

1. Your daughter is being abused by the girl- don't ever let her be in that position again (which is what you've just been saying and realising)

2. The woman you know is probably in an abusive relationship. Her partner is racist, rude, lazy, encourages agressive behaviours in the children, and that's only what you see. How did the little girl learn to be so physical, I wonder?

Not wanting to be on a council estate on her own- how often do we hear vulnerable women doubting they can manage? She may have been worn down by him and feel she can't cope. And has a newborn.

I'm surprised to hear all the 'tough love' "tell her where to get off!!" kind of posts. I'd say you need to get your own boundaries very clear, that you won't keep enabling her chaotic life any more. BUT - if she wants help to escape from the situation she is in, you could be a lifeline.

If he's isolating and abusing her I would tell her you'll always be there if she needs help to get out.

His daughter has become vicious. She hurts people and then laughs about it. She had pushed my dd down the stairs, scratched her with a butter knife, hit her more times than I can count, pulled her lips until her gums bled, bit her and made her bleed and more.

Really?

And I ask as the parent of an aspergillosis son who regularly had friendship issues.

ginger the OP has gained some objectivity and insight from writing down everything that has happened, and the constructive contributions to this thread. In her last post, was beginning to get angry, and channel that anger.

It hardly helps to be sarcastic about things that have occurred, that she now realises have to never happen again.

Honestly, if the DC are starting different schools in September, this problem will solve itself, because they just won't see each other so much. They'll have other people to occupy their time.

If you don't want to upset your friend, micro-manage the next couple of weeks and then drift apart over the summer and continue that in September.

After the children are at different schools you'll have loads of excuses not to get the girls together so often. And if you want to continue the friendship with the mum, you can but meet just the two of you without the children.

You need to take action and that action would be to no longer allow play dates at either house I think. This girl is setting a bad example and the parents are allowing it and not taking responsibility. I wouldn't allow it to continue as if what you are saying us true this is violent and aggressive behaviour and something more severe could happen if you continue to allow them to see each other and if the parents won't accept the issue they won't take responsibility if something severe happens and causes a hospital trip. It would be word on word. Protect your daughter stop the friendship as she doesn't really understand how bad it is or why it's happening. Only you can stop it

Your first job is to protect your dd. Do it.

You absolutely mustn't send your daughter back into that environment - it isn't safe.

Have the girl round to yours if you must, but that's it.

If he is breaking things and screaming abuse in front of the kids, I would be speaking to social services.

Thank you everyone. You're all saying what I know now.

No ginger I'm lying. I started this whole thread that makes me look bad, just so I could slag off a 4 year old. You've sussed me out.

I’m glad you’ve decided not to have any further contact.

Please report to SS. I feel really sorry for the little girl growing up in that environment.

I would tell your friend exactly why you can no longer spend time with the DD/the dad. I know it will be a really difficult conversation and she’s likely to become defensive and it end the friendship but it’s the best thing you can do for her. I would still offer to meet with the friend alone if she wanted.

You have to remember that the little girl is probably mirroring behaviour she sees at home. She's going to have a lot of issues starting school because that behaviour won't be tolerated, especially by other parents.

The shame of living on a council estate

I couldn't be friends with someone who thought like this.

Yes being with an abusive cunt is WAY preferable to the utter shame and humiliation of life as a single Mother on a council estate.

You are having the first clash between wanting to be people pleaser "nice" and having to piss people off to stand up for your child. Your child comes first the feelings of other adults second. I remember the first time this happened I horrified myself by realising I was prioritising a friendship over dd who was about the same age as yours. Woke up to myself didn't happen again.

I won't deny there are many things about my friend that I am uncomfortable with. But she also had a very different upbringing to me. She was raised in a very small town in Russia. Raised that women do as they are told and don't cause problems for their husbands.

The amount of conversations I've had with her explaining that this isn't the way over here. And what's worse is that her husband knows it but still treats her like a second class citizen.

Her having a house that despite having a mortgage on, is 'their own' is all she dreamed of. And her mother actively drives into the the shame of being a single mother without a husband. I think she would have little problem living in a council house, as long as she wasn't single.

Having a husband is all she was raised to believe was important and expected of her.

I'm sad for her, but I won't deny that there are things she says that I have to either steer the conversation away; or speak to my daughter and explain it isn't true. Things like wondering when it's too soon to shave her daughters legs, or deliberately reducing her food to make her loose weight as she still had a toddler belly. Bearing in mind our kids are the exact same height and weight and are on the 45th centile so absolutely perfectly healthy.

A lot of these things I have subconsciously been upset with and thought 'this is so wrong. I never want my daughter to be raised like this'. But I've always felt she doesn't know any better. I suppose that's the same as what I'm doing with her daughter.

I know what I need to do. There will be no friendship if the kids don't see each other as she is never allowed alone time. She's never had an evening off, a lay in, been allowed out for dinner with me. Nothing without children.

But it I ever heard my 4 year old say 'I need to shave my legs and go on a diet' I'll fucking cry that she has been made to feel ashamed of her tiny body so young.

It fucking sucks. But I can't change people. I can protect my dd though from things I know are harmful and inappropriate.

I would tell your DD explicitly that friends don’t hurt us, so if this other child hurts her, she isn’t a good friend.
This is true, but also an important and protective lesson for the future.
Otherwise, I’d ghost the friendship, but put a word in with either SS or your HV if you have a good one.

I think you can easily tell your DD that either you or the other family are busy is she asks to see her friend. Maybe nearer to September you could start explaining that she is due to start a new school and won't it be exciting to make new friends etc etc. Just don't let her back to that environment, she is only 4, she will forget about her friend soon. My DC could not remember their pre-school friends a few months into starting primary school, she will adjust very quickly.

Did you post about choosing the different school? Because if that was you I remember that, and it seems that your 'friend' has got worse.

My DS wouldn't drop a friendship with a hold that was actively hurting him. It took time, and a lot of 'if someone hurts you they are not being a friend and you don't have to spend time with boys who are not your friends'.

Also sent them o a separate school. Several years later they are heading to the same secondary school but DS understands the incidents (he still has a visible scar from one of the times) and knows that this will not be good friendship for him.

Time, space, and natural maturing will stop her wanting to be friends if you stay firm now.

No I didn't post about the other school. The majority of her preschool friends are going to one school, and we chose a different one, because we preferred it. I also wanted her to have the chance to make new friends.

I have had a lot of phone calls from her crying about them going to different schools and potentially moving hers.

I've taken the first step. She called me this morning to ask me to run play group for an hour and then back to hers for lunch. Said no and made an excuse.

It's weird but I already feel more in control now that I have accepted it is wrong and have decided to reduce contact.

It's nice not having to stress about that stupid play group or what her child is going to do next.

Thing is op at this stage you ARE in control of who she spends time with in a home setting, so she can learn how good friendships work. She has to learn it now as you have zero control as she gets older.

DH insistent that our girls "walk away" if someone is consistently unkind. He was really clear about this and you know what they have both throughout primary dumped "friends" who were consistently unkind to them. DH words "they are not your friends" hopefully ringing in their ears. I am much wetter, giving people a chance, try to be "nice". I concede DH dead was actually right on this one.

Mine are older now and we have NO control over who they pal up with, interestingly both have chosen positive equal good friendships with nice decent kids from decent families.

Don't make excuses.

If you're her only friend she is going to continue to contact you. Tell her honestly the problem. Tell her you're always there if she decides she cannot stay with him any more. But lay on the line the damage he is doing to her and her children and you won't expose your daughter to it any longer.

Well done OP, sounds like something has finally clicked for you
Your DD will be sad, she will want to see her friend, in the same way that often cold victims of physical and sexual abuse still love and want to remain with their abuser. They simply don't know any different
You sound like a lovely friend, but you can't help people who don't want to be helped and ultimately, DD is your priority. Get her (and you) away, keep her away and the relief you'll feel eventually will all be worth it.

Ffs CHILD not cold.