To want to tell this parent to tell his child off for one

[fatfatwaterrat]

Name changed for this as it's quite outing as I've spoken about it to a few people in rl, and I post personal things mn.

I have a friend who I met a couple of years ago. We have daughters the same age and developed a friendship through them.

I've always struggled with their parenting style as I feel they avoid provoking her by telling her off or actually disciplining her.

This has developed into her becoming quite physical with her baby brother, my daughter, her mother.

When we are together at my house, she is well behaved. I'm not strict, but I am firm and fair and don't just let children be mean to other children or ignore me and refuse to do something. She had learned this and is a delight with me.

A few times my friend had invited my dd round for a play date and I have dropped her off and then found out her dh was watching the children.

Now I won't lie, I hate him. I can't stand him. Partially because of all the midnight 2 hour phone calls of her crying down the phone about how he has treated her. The fact he never ever does anything around the house of with the children (unless someone is watching), is racist towards her and treats her like she's a simpleton. I hate the fact he is pushing stereotypes on his baby son and preschooler daughter and that this is rubbing off on my child. He comments when she wears a dress and says she looks like a 'proper girl', he takes dolls off his son and says 'I'm worried about this boy.'

I truly can't stand him. But my friend is completely alone in this country, and feels that being with him in a niceish house, is better than not being with him because of the shame of being a single parent on a council estate.

Despite wanting to tell him what I think of him every single time I see his face, I am always friendly and civil for the sake of my friend.

But now I'm struggling to hold my tongue. His daughter has become vicious. She hurts people and then laughs about it. She had pushed my dd down the stairs, scratched her with a butter knife, hit her more times than I can count, pulled her lips until her gums bled, bit her and made her bleed and more.

I always always speak to my dd about if she wants to see her anymore as she seems to be sad and hurt. But she maintains they are best friends and sometimes nice. It hurts me to see my dd who isn't a meek person at all, she just doesn't hurt people and won't hit back, be hurt so often by someone who is supposed to be her friend.

But what is more difficult is that her parents do nothing! They just say 'oh dear' and do nothing. Dd told the father his dd pushed her down the stairs and she was crying and wanting comfort and he told her off for telling tales. Every time she hurts her, she comes and tells me and if he is there he calls her a snitch or a tell tale. And I'm so fucking angry. They are 4. They aren't old enough to be sent upstairs to play by themselves. Especially when one of them had a penchant for hurting the other one.

Today we were at an event and everyone had prizes, his dd snatched my dds prize off her and refused to give it back and said she would put it in the bin. I was running a stall and shouted over to her to give it back as it wasn't hers. My dd was crying and trying to get it back and saying please give it back. Her father was standing there and just said 'oh dear. Stop having a tantrum' to my daughter because she was upset. I left my stall and got the toy off her and have it back to my dd and said we will put it away as it's causing problems and she was fine with that. Friends dd had a screaming fit and he got shitty with me and spent ages letting her hit and scratch her mother who was breastfeeding the baby, because she was angry and all he did was say ' oh dear, she didn't want to share'.

Then he dragged her over to us and said 'I'm sure you'll be fair and let her have the toy as she really likes it' I laughed and said no it's not hers and she can't have other people's things just because she wants them. Cue meltdown which was my fault as I refused to give into her demands.

I'm getting sick of it. I can't trust him around my dd. He makes my skin crawl. I hate how he treats the children. I am angry at my friend for allowing he children to witness him smashing the house in anger and treat her like shit. I'm angry that she is allowing her daughter to be an absolute brat who is so far from the sweet little girl I met 18 months ago.

I either, cut this friendship off, only accept meetings and play dates at my house, tell him to parent his fucking child and stop letting her make demands and hurt other people.

I'm so angry. I wish my dd didn't want to be friends with her anymore and then I wouldn't feel so torn between continuing or stopping.

"I wish my dd didn't want to be friends with her anymore and then I wouldn't feel so torn between continuing or stopping."
I know you don't want to hear this, but this is a situation where what your daughter wants (she's 4!) is not the deciding factor. You are the adult here, and you have to take charge.

Yes, your friend needs help, BUT SHE IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. You owe responsibility ONLY to your daughter, and you owe it to her to remove her from this toxic family and their harm. The father's a fuckwit. The mother is ineffectual and lies to you. The daughter enjoys hurting your daughter. Not one of them is worth your time or your attention.

Inform the preschool that you want them to keep an eye out for your daughter as this girl is bullying her. Refuse all playdates, and yes I would tell the mother why. 'Because your daughter hurts my daughter and neither you nor your husband do anything to stop it. My daughter is not safe with you and I will no longer put her in harm's way.'

Keep your daughter away from this child, let the friendship die, both between the daughters and yourself and the mother.

Fgs, your DD is 4. It's up to you to make the decision. Protect your daughter and keep her away from this family. You are allowing this to happen by letting the contact continue!

Children don't have the insight to pull away in these situations. You need to sever the friendship, and have a good talk with her (or read some kids books about...) about how good friends behave. I'm sorry but your friends situation is not yours to change. Let her know you can be there to help if she needs help but you won't be coming over any more or seeing her with dh.

Agree with everyone else, protect your daughter and stop contact.

She's 4 she says she wants to play with this child as she doesn't know any better. You are the adult, you know it's wrong.
Find some new friends for your Dd, if you continue to let her play with this child it won't end well. Your child is learning to be a doormat.
4 year olds aren't known for making good choices, it's your job to decide who she plays with right now.

This sounds so much like a close relative of mine, even down to the abusive DH. I’ve gone as low contact as I possibly can without causing too much of an extended family ruckus and our lives have been so much happier and calmer for it.

You’ve been more than a good friend but really you just can’t help everyone especially at the detriment of yourself/your family.

Good luck

I also can’t understand why you keep dropping your daughter off there when she is getting so badly hurt. Why wouldn’t you put a stop to it?

Agree, you need to protect your DD. She is seeing this as ‘normal’ behaviour in friendship, partly because you are standing by and let this happen without any real consequences (ie, not seeing the friend anymore).
Her mum thinks it’s ok for her to be treated like this so why would she think it’s wrong/something to avoid.

You are setting her bar incredibly low for future friendships/relationships.

I wish my DD didn’t want to be friends with her anymore
She asks to see her and play with her because the friend probably isn’t always mean to her. Just like adults in abusive relationships don’t want to leave, because there are good/fun parts too.
Regardless of what your DD wants she is 4 and it’s your responsibility not to expose her to such a toxic environment.

I would cut contact, maybe invite nursery friends for play dates, give your DD lots of other opportunities to make other friends.

I would also report to SS.

I have a feeling though that you won’t cut contact. If you continue to see them, you need to stick up for your DD every single time she gets hurt by the friend by telling the friend off - really telling her off the way you would if your DD behaved like this.
You need to stick up for her every single time the dad calls her a snitch/tell tale by telling the dad very firmly that what he is saying is wrong and not to speak to your daughter like that.

No more play dates at their house, your kids should Noway be near him, he sounds vile and abusive. I am sure this behaviour of his, is a way of isolating her. Have play dates round your house, or just meet up with her without the kids, when they are at school.

Your first job, in every circumstances is to protect your child.

That list of injuriesto your DD at the hand of a specific child is horrific and well past acceptable.

Your duty of care is to your child. She takes precedence over your friend.

No more play dates at either house.

See your friend alone in the evenings if you wish you without the children.

If she asks why no more playsates or babysitting I’d be honest - it’s not safe for your DD.

You can’t change how they parent their daughter

You can’t change how this man treats his wife

You can’t change how his daughter treats your daughter

You also can’t change how their daughter treats her mother

The only thing that you can change is the amount of contact your daughter has with them.

Just stop seeing them. Your daughter is 4 and you are the adult so start protecting her

Zen1 I have. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, it used to happen and is one of the reasons I have stopped asking for any childcare favours or play dates without me there. I don't do it anymore because my child was getting hurt and then even worse, old off my the grow up for telling tales!

I'm angry with myself that this wasn't an easy decision for me. I'm a very regular poster on mumsnet and it's always so clear in other peoples situations, but when it's your own, things are harder.

I'm sad for my daughter that her friend hasn't turned out to be a very good friend, but it isn't her fault her parents are like that, I just can't make excuses for her at the expense of my daughter.

I do know that. It's very hard because I always put other people before myself, and I've reached breaking point in so many areas. This is one of a few things I am saying enough is enough about this month. But once something gets to a certain point, it has to stop.

And this is one of those things. I feel bad that my friend will struggle more without me, but my daughter must come first and I would never forgive myself if I made one too many allowances for it and she got really hurt or even developed a doormat complex because of it.

That is the last thing I want. And I need to show her that it's ok to not like the way people are treating you and to choose not to be treated that way.

I will lead by example and I just hope she makes lots of new friends at school in September and has a healthier friendship!

Jesus Christ why was it acceptable albeit upsetting for my daughter to have her lips pulled until they bled for no other reason that she felt like it! I watched it happen. I was nursing my newborn and didn't get to her in time to pull her off.

Why do we feel it's ok for kids to hurt other kids?! I guess in my head I thought 'she is learning and doesn't know better.' But today I realised that she actually isn't being taught not to do that, so won't learn. I'm sad for her.

But I'm more sad for my bloody daughter who wants to be friends with someone who hurts her.

I've done this so wrong. Why the fuck did I make allowances for her being hurt?

I'm such a people pleaser and I need to learn how to say no and put myself and my family first!

How the fuck do I start that?!

In that case, you have done the right thing. You are right that your daughter needs to be prioritised above your friend, and as hard as it may be, I think you need to cut contact. I don’t think you’ll be able to carry on seeing your friend without her trying to involve the children.
I’m sure your child will have no problem making friends at school(it’s not the same one your friend’s child is going to is it?)

I think you just did start - Getting angry is a good place to start. Now you need to channel that anger into some action! Good Luck!

fatfatwaterrat this sounds like an awful situation for you. I'm glad you're going to cut it off though, your loyalty ultimately always has to be with your daughter and maybe by cutting the friendship off the other girl will realise that her actions do have consequences even if it's not because the parents are enforcing them.

It's hard to not feel like you need to take on your friends problems, but if your friend is willing to let her kids grow up with this man because she doesn't want to live on a council estate, then honestly she needs to sort her own priorities out and that's not something you can make her do.

Look after you and your daughter, make some new friends and don't blame yourself for others not taking responsibility for their children

You've just taken the first step!

Keep walking

'the shame of being a single mum on a council estate'

Your friend can fucking well fuck off. I'm a single mum living on a council estate. I'd be more ashamed to be a parent like her and be completely fucking my kids up by staying in such a toxic environment that's clearly turning my children into horrors.

Agree with what everyone else has said - your DD is four. She needs to know this is not how friends behave, and that she doesn't need to put up with this. I don't think there's much point saying anything to your friend about it. I appreciate you'd feel guilty in walking away from her, but your DD has to be your priority.

Absolutely you’ve just started. Well done and keep going. And I’m sure your daughter will make lots of new friends at school.

You may feel you are in a difficult situation here, but you need to think carefully.
What would you say if it was a friend who allowed her well behaved dog to be looked after or walked by someone who’s own dog was badly trained and regularly hurt the friends dog?
What would you think of the friend if she takes the untrained dog for walks with her own dog knowing that her own dog is likely get bitten or even mauled? Would you think that your friend was being a responsible dog owner, or would you be concerned that she was abusing her own dog dog by exposing it to a dangerous situation?

Your children are more precious than a dog. Please, you must protect them from this abuse.

Explain to your daughter that mummies know best sometimes and we are mot goung to see / look afer little Betty because i do not think she is very nice to you.

You need to teach your daughter what a good friend is. Sometimes friends fall out with each other but they don't keep physically putting their hands on each other.

I stopped my eldest child's friendship when he had just turned 4 due to physical violence against him from another child. His mother said, but your son asks to play with my son. I said he's 4 he forgets but I don't.

She thought her child was an angel and misunderstood. He was on report within a week of starting school.

Cut this friendship dead. You can still see the Mum but do not put the children together. Ever.

Well done for taking the first step. Keep that anger and channel it, use it to protect your children. You are a good mum. You can’t be responsible for putting right other people’s mistakes when you have your own children. Your children need your protection and must come first.

I agree that you need to distance yourself from this friend and her obnoxious husband and daughter. Your DD is only 4 and she will soon make other friends if you encourage other friendships. This other girl is a bully and it will damage your own DDs mental health if this relationship continues. You sound kind but this friendship is toxic.

You start by being honest with your friend and telling her why you have to end the friendship. Tell her the truth about her husband and about her daughter. Then tell her you wish her well in the future but that you cannot help her any more nor will you have her DD over.

Then be sure you tell the school that you want them to encourage both girls to play with other children.