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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people genuinely hate England?

999 replies

beautifulblue · 08/07/2018 22:48

Is anyone else sick of seeing the anger/hatred towards England in the World Cup? This 'anyone but england' mentality from almost every other country is disheartening honestly. I've seen every excuse under the sun, we haven't played a proper team yet, 200,000 signatures to re-play the Colombia match because apparently that wasn't fair, blaming a few rowdy fans for not wanting England to win. I'm especially surprised by the amount of Scottish/Irish/Welsh people who seem to feel like this (on social media) i know we'd so be routing for our neighbours if it was the other way round! So... AIBU to think everyone just friggin hates England?!

OP posts:
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5
MakeItStopNeville · 09/07/2018 00:33

Hate I literally have no idea what you’re on about. I’m a non Trump voting US citizen and a Remain supporting Brit. And I go to the UK at least once, if not more, a year.

I wasn’t talking about my views at all.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 00:33

This thread is weird. How can you hate a whole nation? And when you do, do you mean all the people in it or only certain individuals?

I am proud to be English. I think English people are kind, polite and we have so much that is the envy of the world - the healthcare system/NHS (yes I know it's British), the royal family (sorry not sorry), a welfare system, opportunities for all for higher education (unlike the US where you have to pay full college fees upfront so anyone poor can kiss goodbye to that), educational system, great authors, fantastic actors, wonderful musicians and artists and last but not least, illustrious landmarks and architecture. Our heritage is one to be proud of, IMO.

If you don't like England, don't come here, don't cheer our team, but don't for a minute think you are superior for it, because actually you're just making a very lazy generalisations.

YoYotheclown · 09/07/2018 00:36

I can't work out what this means. What is the "silver shilling" and who does England hand it out to?

Silver shilling- benefits
Hand out- immigrants
Not hard to work out really Confused

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 00:38

f you don't like England, don't come here, don't cheer our team, but don't for a minute think you are superior for it, because actually you're just making a very lazy generalisations.

I just can't help it. I do feel superior 🤷🏻‍♀️

HouseOfGoldandBones · 09/07/2018 00:39

@chrisinthesun Grin Grin Grin Grin

You've answered the OP right there.

Someone said something you didn't like & you immediately took a huff & started name calling.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 00:40

Why howfaralong what makes you better than (presumably) 65million people?

RosemaryHoight · 09/07/2018 00:42

I was in an Irish pub abroad on Saturday. After the game an English man told an Irish man that England had invented the Irish and of all things aïoli.

If that was all you would see then it does create a bad impression.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 00:43

No no no 😂 I'm not better than all those individuals but I cannot help but feel superior to the general vibe that is England.

Of course we're dealing with generalisations.

I see the flag and I just feel I'm better than that and all it represents. Sorry not sorry. 😀

AWomanIsAnAdultHumanFemale · 09/07/2018 00:44

The Welsh, the Scottish, the Irish, and every other fucking nation can fly their flag high, and be proud of who they are, and it's COOL!..

Actually, in my country (Northern Ireland) we don’t have a flag to fly high and be proud of. I won’t ask you to think about why that is.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 00:49

I see the flag and I just feel I'm better than that and all it represents. Sorry not sorry

Ok but what is so good about you that makes you better?

I think only hard-of-thinking people would say "this English bloke down the pub said he hates all foreigners so it's hard not to think of English people that way".

sailorcherries · 09/07/2018 00:49

^ probably sums it up for many (AWoman's post)

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 00:52

think only hard-of-thinking people would say "this English bloke down the pub said he hates all foreigners so it's hard not to think of English people that way".

Yeah I get where you are coming from but also : Brexit.

See also the huge sections of population. Voting Tory.

Yes I'm better than that. No doubt in my mind.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 00:54

But what makes you better than that?

Oswin · 09/07/2018 00:57

Howfar do you feel that way towards the welsh?

stopgap · 09/07/2018 00:58

I find this thread perplexing. As an English person in the US, I have only encountered positivity, not just from Americans (obviously), but over the years from people with Pakistani, Indian, Jamaican heritage etc. who gush about England and all it has given the world. I’m usually the one thinking—crap, we treated your forebears abysmally—but nope, in 15 years, never a damning word.

RainbowsAndSmiles · 09/07/2018 00:58

Howfaralong - you're making no sense. Because some voted Brexit and Tory that automatically makes you superior to an entire country? Confused
England here and voted both Remain and Labour.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 01:04

I'm not sure I get you?

I feel superior to 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 because I'm pro immigration , I'm anti food-banks, I'm against the dismantling of the welfare state and the NHS.

It's a moral high ground I'm on here Grin

It's also slightly tongue in cheek because comparing a real person and a stereotype of a nation is pretty difficult to be fair.

I'm allowed to feel superior. It's the only thing that will get me through this World Cup 😂 and more seriously the shit show that is Brexit. 👍🏻

Let me put it this way: I as a person wouldn't invade my neighbours, try to conquer the world, allow my citizens to live in poverty, attempt to keep desperate People away from help, ensure that the rich stayed rich and the poor stayed poor and then parade about the royals as a symbol of god knows what.

I also would definitely not trash an ikea or destroy an ambulance because I was just so bloody happy.

So yeah I'm feeling pretty good in comparison 💁🏻‍♀️

CurlyhairedAssassin · 09/07/2018 01:05

I’m in Liverpool and I’m not seeing any hatred for the English as a nation from anyone, anywhere, except here on this thread, which seems to have its own microcosm of weirdness. Grin

I’m seeing hatred for our yobby football “fans” from everyone, all nations including England. I’m seeing hatred for our embarrassing drinking culture, which is a huge issue, resulting in mindless mob violence and vandalism for no other reason than they are drunk and want to smash something up. Appalling.

But for the English as a nation, no. I can understand the Welsh, Scottish and Irish being annoyed at the constant presence of the World Cup in the media. But so would anyone English who is not into football.

But I will forgive the media and pundits their passion as it’s been a long time since the team got that close and they’re like excited kids on Christmas Eve.

The thing that Welsh, Irish and Scottish have to remember is that the media will go with what the majority of their readers will want to hear about. As England’s population is huge compared the other nations then yes, that means the majority of the U.K. will want to read about the England team. It’s purely numbers. Please don’t try and read anything else into it.

As others have said if there were a GB team and not the separate nations as in the Olympics then I’m sure all members of the U.K. would be happy to hear about the team (unless you’re not into football)

Maybe it’s because I’m from Liverpool and it’s a bit of a melting pot, history wise, but I just don’t see the frenzy of hatred that is trying to be whipped up on this thread in real life.

It’s true that most people in Liverpool have Irish ancestry and we have a lot of Irish people living here too so there is a lot of love between the two but we’re also on the border with Wales so a lot of us also have Welsh ancestry too.

So maybe it’s for that reason that I’m just not seeing the hate you talk about, OP, even on social media.

English football thugs and violent drinkers are the ones giving England a bad name but thankfully in my experience most people from outside the U.K. have enough intelligence not to tar all English people they come across with the same brush.

Unless you’re from a holiday resort abroad frequented by drunken Brits. And you note that I say Brits and not English because that sort of cultural minority group doesn’t seem to have any boundaries. There are Scottish, Welsh, Irish drunken embarrassing dickheads with no decorum just as there are English drunken embarrassing dickheads with no decorum. But it comes down to numbers again, and it becomes “the English are awful drunks” not “the British are all drunks.” Or not knowing the difference between British and English I suppose, which I can understand if they mostly all speak the same language.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 01:06

And of course these are all generalisations... see also the whole thread.

GunpowderGelatine · 09/07/2018 01:10

howfar it's not just a generalisation it's being really dumb, as not every English person is the same. Your moral beliefs are better than that of 'a nation'? 🤣🤣 OK then, whatever helps you sleep at night.

jacks11 · 09/07/2018 01:11

*The rest of the UK is well aware it is part of a union whereas a lot of English people have absolutely no awareness whatsoever and it can be fantastically irritating.

Think of it this way: do you live outside London? Do you sometimes think Londoners forget there’s a world beyond Watford or look down on the rest of the country? Well the whole of England does that about just about every other nation on earth.*

I think this is a lot of the issue. I don't think that many people HATE England, but may support anyone else because there is a lot of arrogance (not necessarily individuals, but often a more national arrogance and sense of superiority) that really gets people's backs up. And the fact that, actually, that superiority and entitlement is not always warranted really doesn't help.

Neither does being incredibly poor losers with a tendency to gloat for a VERY long time when you do win doesn't do much for your cause, to be fair.

When lots of different people have an issue with you, and you are the only common denominator, it can sometimes be beneficial to reflect on whether they might have a point....

The English media (often allegedly British) have a lot to answer for, IMHO. The way they talk about English teams ad nauseam, even when you are watching a match in which the English are not playing is somewhat tiresome. Even more so when the team(s) that ARE playing are also British, so technically "British" broadcasters should be covering all teams equally (see the 6 nations for this, happens a lot- one of my english friends had never noticed until it was pointed out.... and there in lies part of your issue).

The arrogance of the pundits really can be quite something to behold. I am currently hoping England don't win on the basis that the crowing that would go on on the media every day for months will drive me bonkers! It's not that I hate England or the English, but really don't think I can face it if they do win- it will be nauseating and go on for quite some time. It's not actually that I dislike England or the English- I just don't really want them to win for that reason.

I also agree with this Even in recent history England have treated & continue to treat Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland as the poor relation who's supposed to be grateful for any crumbs! Or at least that's how it feels sometimes. Before we had the Scottish parliament, which is not without it's issues I know, Scotland was largely ignored unless it suited westminster. I imagine it is much the same in Wales and NI. Even now, westminster is still pretty England-centric.

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 01:11

As England’s population is huge compared the other nations then yes, that means the majority of the U.K. will want to read about the England team. It’s purely numbers. Please don’t try and read anything else into it.

Yes and no. Yes it's a numbers game but no we absolutely should be reading into it. It's a tacit acceptance that the minority doesn't matter because numbers.

That's actually not okay. In any other context that's not cool.

I actually totally accept people will want to read about England's success but where's the balance?

Doubletrouble99 · 09/07/2018 01:13

As a Scot now living in Scotland married to a footy mad English man. I can tell you that the Scots can't stand the arrogance and wall to wall coverage of the media. The London centric press really don't have a clue what it's like outside their little bubble.
I was a t a wedding on Saturday whilst there every now and again someone would let us know the score. Most of the Scot's reactions were 'oh no' as in the English will be insufferable if they win!!

howfaralong · 09/07/2018 01:15

Your moral beliefs are better than that of 'a nation'? 🤣🤣 OK then, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Yes exactly. I will take the moral high ground over anybody who thinks it's okay to vote Tory. Over anyone who voted to leave Europe because they wanted to put a stop to immigration. I already pointed out the impossibility of comparing an individual to a nation or have acknowledged many many times that generalisations are just that.

I don't think it's me being dumb to be honest. The whole thread is a bit silly and abstract by its very nature but there clearly is a national identity I am more than entitled to feel superior to if I wish. Read through the whole thread to see the many posters speak of it.

Parker231 · 09/07/2018 01:19

I live in England but am not supporting England in the World Cup as I’m not English (or British). I’m Belgian so am supporting them although if a disaster happens and they’re not in the final and England are, I’ll support England much to my DH’s disgust as he’s French Canadian and a big France supporter. What I don’t support is the appalling way in which some of the English fans behave. It would be much better is alcohol was prohibited on match days although no idea how this could be enforced.