In law holiday trickiness (+Brexit!!!) 😮

[CEADavies]

Another in law issue I’m afraid!

My husband’s family have always been very good to us financially & practically. But I’m realising that this seems, as time goes on, to come with certain conditions. And I do not like it!

Recently his brother (my BIL) was really hurtful to my husband. He went off on one from nowhere (seemingly) about how selfish we were for going away for one night & leaving kids with PIL (despite the grandparents having agreed to it), when we had decided not to go on holiday with them all this year. Apparently you’re not allowed to do that - decide not to go on holiday on with family! He was quite nasty about it & when my husband (eventually) phoned him to talk about it, he just doubled down & wouldn’t take it.

What is really difficult for us both is that we have been on holiday with them for the last 5 years (mostly paid for by them). The last 2 years we’ve gone to huge hotels in Portugal - noisy, crowded & not my cup of tea at all. I hate that kind of thing - I’m very noise & too many people sensitive and it’s just my idea of hell, tbh. I also have long term depression (for last 20+ years, inc. serious PND after 2nd child 3 years ago). I need, in order to function as a parent, to have at least some quiet time regularly. So I’ve gritted my teeth & put up with the holidays last 2 years for my husband & son’s sakes because they wanted to go. But I really, really struggled. So this year I discussed with hubby & although we don’t have much spare cash as I’m only freelance part time, we said we’d go alone. We were quite happy to go with his family for kids sake but we didn’t want to go to a large hotel - rather a small villa or quiet cottage. They said no, they didn’t want to do that. So we said, OK we’ll go alone. None of this was said with attitude as far as I’m aware as husband spoke to them about it - and he tried carefully to explain how hard it was for me with my depression & lack of peace etc. We thought this was reasonably said but unfortunately both PIL & BIL decided to take massive offence at this.

Then when I discussed this with my MIL earlier she doubled down too. Of course she’ll defend her older son (hubbys brother) but I explained how unfair it felt to have the attack from BIL. I was in tears talking about how much my husband helps me (“yes I’ve noticed how much he does” she said and “I know you have ‘difficulties’” all in a non emotional tone!) and how difficult it is to parent with a mental illness & how nasty it felt for his brother to begrudge him one night away that he rarely has. Apparently no. It’s selfish of me not to take the boys to Portugal with them.

Apparently it’s their decision what my sons should do - and even I should do - with our holiday. I don’t think it is. AIBU?

Background: not trying to get in a political argument here, each to their own, but my in laws are all fervent Brexiters. They’re extremely right wing, racist, homophobic etc, and I’m not. I’m much more liberal and very anti Brexit. This has definitely left a sour taste in the mouth over the last 2 years. They know I disagree with them. I’m not sure if they realise how much!😂

Stop engaging with them on this topic altogether. You have informed them you will be taking your own separate holiday. There is nothing to be gained by trying to talk them round, because they have no sense of boundaries. Plan your own holiday and don't discuss it any further until after you get back! If they raise the topic again, you and DH should both tell them firmly "We already said we would be planning a separate holiday, we don't wish to discuss it any further." Frankly I'd be tempted to disengage from them completely. You might find the book "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward to be helpful:

www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Laws-Strategies-Protecting-Marriage-ebook/dp/B003WJRE4Q

Thank you - good advice x

They’re racist and homophobic?? I wouldn’t be in the same room as them. They’re scum, basically. Nice or not. Paying for holidays or helping or whatever - who cares. They’re racist and homophobic FFS!

You can't bring the Racism and Homophobic attitudes into it, you've accepted a free holiday from them for the last five years.

Are your Sons getting any type of holiday, or rather what's the plan going forward? Would there be an age where you let the Family take them without you?

You get to decide, but you also have to consider what would be nice for them.

I’d rather have my children holiday in a Russian gulag, than pack them off unaccompanied with a couple of racist homophobes.

I’ve accepted free holidays, yep😢 I kinda regret that now. I was convinced it’d be best for the kids as they enjoy seeing grandparents & also because MIL despite faults does help/play well with them. (Almost too much help, she kinda takes over!) Because of my depression, my husband has to take on a lot. When you have depression you feel worthless & guilty most of the time and I feel really bad about how much he has to do with children plus full time job. (Not because fathers shouldn’t do childcare, course they should, but because of my illness). So for him, it’s been a break, a way of getting support. That’s also why I’ve done it. But it’s started to become not as helpful because I’m struggling with the holidays, and now the hideous attitude.

As said above I tried to compromise saying we’d like to go with you, just somewhere quieter, but they refused.

The racist stuff - well tbh it’s always been there - shocked the hell out of me at first but I dutifully turned the other cheek because I thought I should for husbands sake again! It’s only since older son getting old enough to understand such things that I’m more concerned, plus Brexit has just heightened my sensitivity to xenophobia, etc. I wish with all my heart they weren’t like that. They are. They won’t change now - both in their 70s.

I’m planning on going away sometime in next few months - girls trip for a long weekend. I’ve suggested hubby can take my boys away with him & the in laws, then - if they like. I can’t face going away with them at present. I don’t want to stop my kids from seeing them though - but they’re still only 3 & 6 so I don’t want to leave them for a week long hol, as they’ll miss mummy (and I’ll miss them).

That did make me laugh 😂
MIL is good with my kids, to give her her due, and they love her - so I can’t break off with her completely. She takes over a bit, though. It’s something my children obv wouldn’t notice but it’s a problem for me. Very conflicting.

Sorry yes we are going away next week to Dorset for a holiday, just the four of us. They’re not happy. But so be it 😏

You can’t dictate where they go (if they don’t fancy a quiet place), so it seems entirely reasonable for you to go on your own.
Ignore any claims Of ‘selfishness’ it’s rubbish quite simply, you can go where you want and do can they.

Could just your dh and ds's go alone, but for a shorter period of time, say a long weekend?

Thank you, that’s a very sensible way of looking at it. Why is it so hard to see your own probs more simply?!

Yes I think that’s a good idea for them all to go for long weekend. Part of me suspects they won’t like that idea because they need to feel “in control” - but I’d say that’s a good compromise.

Stupid thing is, we said we’d like to do our own thing “this year” meaning we can go away together in future again potentially. But since they’ve all behaved so shockingly and ignorantly - even when husband has tried to explain things like my mental illness, they’ve just snorted & brushed it aside - I really don’t feel I want to go away with them EVER again.

My family were like this. We refused the following year (only went away once) and they were livid. How DARE I refuse a free family holiday.

They are also racist. And homophobic. And also brexiteers.

We don’t see them anyone.

It. Is. Bliss.

Any mental health issues might dramatically improve without them around. Just saying. Because mind did.

*mine

Racist, homophobic, right wing Brexiteers, so horrible that they help you out financially, do over night babysiting and have paid for big, noisey foreign holidays that you have accepted but didn't appreciate. Well don't you have the moral high ground. And what's is the 'doubling down' they are all doing?

Did you read the passage? About the mental illness? Perhaps you need to do that again, and then reply with a little more empathy, yeah? 😉

If it wasn’t clear, the doubling down is when my hubby tried to ask them to explain what was wrong and have it out. They said “selfish bla bla bla” and he explained its not selfish because of my depression - which is a real illness if you’re not sure! 🙄 No recognition of that, apology for offence caused, understanding that maybe THEY don’t understand & could try a little harder. As said above, you ALREADY feel like the worse person in the world because your illness makes you feel that way. For someone who supposedly cares about you to point blank refuse to take that on board is, in case you’re wondering, not a nice thing.

What peculiar people! Of course you are not unreasonable to not want a holiday that suits them but not you!

You and your DH just have to dig in and say NO THANK YOU to this and future holidays with them. Go on the holidays your family would like - you are paying so you get to choose!

Frankly if it came right down to it your DH should tell them to stop trying to control your family and he should prepare for low contact if needs be.

That would be my ideal. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen. He’s stuck in the middle & loves his family - so do my kids - so I can’t stop them seeing them - that WOULD be me being selfish. I just have to limit my attendance.

What does “double down” mean?

I think it’s really odd they’re telling you where and when and who you holiday with! Bonkers! It’s your family, your decision, regardless of the reasons! Your depression, their political views, etc... it doesn’t really matter. You choose what holiday you want and your reasons are your business?!

Don't beat yourself up about accepting holidays from them in the past, it's so easy for some people to judge you.
You are deff NBU OP and it is them not you.

Could you go on holiday to the same place and at the same time as them, but stay in a cottage nearby rather than in the same hotel? (Or not nearby...)

I felt quite sorry fir you until your attitude about Brexit, then thought grow up.

Dont look for support from the ILs you'll be disappointed. Dont tell them how unhappy and fragile you are feeling they will simply give them more opportunities to undermine you. Go on your holiday and enjoy it. Learn to be a little more FU.

‘Double down’ in this context clearly means ‘to dig one’s heels in’ - to essentially double one’s intransigence. I have to admit I find it quite annoying, though. And I’m usually a fan of Americanisms.

The OP is perfectly reasonable in seeking a separate holiday, having found the previous two years very difficult. The unreasonableness is the offence taken by others.