In law holiday trickiness (+Brexit!!!) 😮

[CEADavies]

Another in law issue I’m afraid!

My husband’s family have always been very good to us financially & practically. But I’m realising that this seems, as time goes on, to come with certain conditions. And I do not like it!

Recently his brother (my BIL) was really hurtful to my husband. He went off on one from nowhere (seemingly) about how selfish we were for going away for one night & leaving kids with PIL (despite the grandparents having agreed to it), when we had decided not to go on holiday with them all this year. Apparently you’re not allowed to do that - decide not to go on holiday on with family! He was quite nasty about it & when my husband (eventually) phoned him to talk about it, he just doubled down & wouldn’t take it.

What is really difficult for us both is that we have been on holiday with them for the last 5 years (mostly paid for by them). The last 2 years we’ve gone to huge hotels in Portugal - noisy, crowded & not my cup of tea at all. I hate that kind of thing - I’m very noise & too many people sensitive and it’s just my idea of hell, tbh. I also have long term depression (for last 20+ years, inc. serious PND after 2nd child 3 years ago). I need, in order to function as a parent, to have at least some quiet time regularly. So I’ve gritted my teeth & put up with the holidays last 2 years for my husband & son’s sakes because they wanted to go. But I really, really struggled. So this year I discussed with hubby & although we don’t have much spare cash as I’m only freelance part time, we said we’d go alone. We were quite happy to go with his family for kids sake but we didn’t want to go to a large hotel - rather a small villa or quiet cottage. They said no, they didn’t want to do that. So we said, OK we’ll go alone. None of this was said with attitude as far as I’m aware as husband spoke to them about it - and he tried carefully to explain how hard it was for me with my depression & lack of peace etc. We thought this was reasonably said but unfortunately both PIL & BIL decided to take massive offence at this.

Then when I discussed this with my MIL earlier she doubled down too. Of course she’ll defend her older son (hubbys brother) but I explained how unfair it felt to have the attack from BIL. I was in tears talking about how much my husband helps me (“yes I’ve noticed how much he does” she said and “I know you have ‘difficulties’” all in a non emotional tone!) and how difficult it is to parent with a mental illness & how nasty it felt for his brother to begrudge him one night away that he rarely has. Apparently no. It’s selfish of me not to take the boys to Portugal with them.

Apparently it’s their decision what my sons should do - and even I should do - with our holiday. I don’t think it is. AIBU?

Background: not trying to get in a political argument here, each to their own, but my in laws are all fervent Brexiters. They’re extremely right wing, racist, homophobic etc, and I’m not. I’m much more liberal and very anti Brexit. This has definitely left a sour taste in the mouth over the last 2 years. They know I disagree with them. I’m not sure if they realise how much!😂

Like the irony that you are going to Dorset, they abroad. Have a lovely holiday.
At some point, if you feel up to it, you could tell MIL that she might have to pay lots more (for visas) to go to Portugal, or even not go at all (no planes flying) and it would be her own fault.

OP, you have a lot on your plate there! Don't beat yourself up about the past holidays, what's done is done.
Don't be afraid to hold your ground for future holidays/interactions with the PIL - it might sound out of context, but be more selfish! You should enjoy your holidays as well! It's precious time with you DH and DCs, don't let it be spoilt. Remember, your children will pick up on your moods, and if you're not happy, that will affect them as well. So do look after yourself to make sure you enjoy yourself (holiday or not).
And I think that if your PIL hols all those views you've described, I would def limit their time with the children as much as possible! Good luck xx

My main question is are you happy for your children to be around people who are racist, xenophobic, ignorant and bullying? They will pick it up and then what will you do? I appreciate its hard but, what's that phrase? 'No is a complete sentence'. You dh is also enabling their appalling behaviours by meekly allowing them to behave this way. My dds in laws are similar, if not quite so forceful and she challenges every slur or hideous facebook posts about 'Are cuntry' as does her dh. You both have to stop so much contact unless their attitudes moderate around your family

OP, you and your Dh are grown-ups and the notion his family have that they can control where and when and how all of you have your holidays - to the extent that they are 'not happy' when you dare to have a week in Dorset - is simply nonsensical.

As is often said on here, they can FOTTFSOF. Please don't let this upset you any more. It's time to detach as much as possible from these people, who simply sound awful.

Most importantly in the short term, enjoy your lovely week away, just your own little family.

@Angeybird345 you’re entitled to your views on anything so thanks for your input. Maybe I’m immature for other reasons - god knows we all are sometimes - but I’m also entitled to my political views. Holding views diff to yours isn’t being immature 😉

I completely understand why you wouldn't go but I think you've made it more of a problem than it should have been. I also think it's a mistake that you got involved with discussing it with your MIL.

If I see you I wouldn't go on holiday with them and I would step back and leave your husbands family discussions to your husband.

"Apparently it’s their decision what my sons should do - and even I should do - with our holiday. I don’t think it is. AIBU?"

Perhaps when they were paying yes-to some extent.

But if you are paying for your own holiday then wtf??

That aside they all sound awful.

How bothered is your husband about seeing them?

@cloudjumper Cheers for your empathetic response. Yeah I think realigning myself & my relationship with them is way forward. Prob tried to be too nice/accommodating in the past. Now, assertive about my needs & my immediate family - before theirs (without disregarding them completely in a vengeful way!). But the love has been lost I’m afraid - so it’ll be on a much more limited footing now.😏

5 years of paid for holidays and you’re only now putting your foot down? I understand why the pil are pissed off, BUT they have no right to dictate where you go and when etc.

As long as your dh has your back, then they can shove it and don’t be railroaded into allowing them to take dh and ds away while you stay home, because I bet that’ll be the next suggestion.

Those nasty people paying for your holidays all this time!

AngryBird you're not helpful. Brexit isn't the issue here. Should nearly half the country 'grow up'!
OP your in laws sound awful and toxic. I would try and cut down contact and challenge their views in front of your kids if you can.
Does your DH challenge them? Hopefully he doesn't share any of their prejudices

My parents can be very like this. Its taken me a long while to realise that my selfishness is anything that doesn't mean I'm willingly allowing them to put me on the bottom of the pile. A recentish example is for not attending an unarranged meeting with my father that I should have psychically known about at a sporting event (which I couldn't have made if I'd known anyway as transport troubles meant it took me over 3 hours to get there and I just got to my seat in time) resulting in a rant about my inherent selfishness because he was looking forward to seeing me .

When my DC were included in bottom of the pile stuff I stood firm. We are VLC with them now. Its a lot better.

Crikey I think you did well to go on holiday with them at all. I would never have entertained a once a year break with my in laws!
We took the children to visit once or twice a year or when on our way to Yorkshire coast or France but only stayed a few days. Likewise they travelled twice to stay with us but stayed in a nearby hotel or holiday let so we both had our space.
Don't let it worry you anymore. Make sure you take a camera and capture what a great time you had and while there consider where you might like to stay next year. Get it booked and don't give there noisy resort another thought. Your boys are a lovely age to explore Devon/Cornwall. Rock pools to explore, woods to walk in and save up for the Eden project. Go early in the morning to do the more popular bits and go to the quieter areas in the afternoon when it gets busy. You can do lots of free things with kids so just need the price of the cottage or go camping. We had lots of cheap holidays camping on small family run sites. Have fun! Don't be bullied by them again.

How utterly preposterous this is...and it just goes to show how controlling some family dynamics can end up being. Of course you don’t have to go on an annual holiday that you don’t enjoy. I am also crowd and noise averse so would avoid busy hotel resorts like the plague...but no one is insisting I go to one, paid by them or not. I’d think it very bizarre if anyone did!

There is nothing wrong with taking the decision to have a year out to do your own thing. You have autonomy, you are adults and you can do what the fuck you like. That his family have lost their shit over this tells you how fucked up they are. That is not your problem.

Stick to your gains and remain polite and reasonable...you are doing nothing wrong so you have no need to get upset. Leave the histrionics to your overbearing in laws. They’ll calm down eventually.

A couple of points occur to me - firstly in explaining why you don't want to go on holiday with them again and why you are going alone your OH seems (from your post) to have criticises the holiday(s) you went on with them and what they like doing. This can be antagonist for some people. It makes them feel defensive in a "I paid for it" and "all we've done for them" sort of way.

You probably know this now but there is no such thing as a free lunch. If money is involved people start to feel they own you in some way. Obviously you are perfectly entitled to go off on your own and do your own thing and I'd ignore any silliness and not mention the word holiday to them for a while! Enjoy :)

*guns

“You probably know this now but there is no such thing as a free lunch. If money is involved people start to feel they own you in some way.”

Yep...there is truth to this. Some people do think that if they shell out they can assume authority and dictate. They are wrong though - they can’t buy another person’s freedom of choice or and sometimes those people have to learn to step back and behave appropriately.

they definitely cannot force you to go on holiday with them, although for the future perhaps a small compromise (short break, in a quieter setting) could be som. ething to think about. stick to your guns! There is often a lot of entitlement surrounding holidays. My dm thinks she should be coming on every holiday with us, and prefers foreign holidays. She is currently sulking because I have offered her a week in cornwall this year not in Mallorca as usual. ( and I always pay for her, which according to dm is completely normal as I will inherit her house !!!)

OP, things change and move on. You are now building your own family memories and holiday traditions. Let your ILs sulk, they will get over it. We don't all enjoy the same things which is what makes us interesting as people.

Well done for instituting the change.

Sound a bit like DH family, who I actually get in with pretty well
Mil and sil live very close to each other anddo lots together, we do often get invited but it’s “ we are going on Holiday here, do you want to come?” Rather than shall we all discuss where we should go on Holiday together. The holiday is usually planned around her dc as well ( eg things to do they will like, bedtimes to suit them etc)
We just don’t go
Just do your own thing and take the flack, they won’t agree with you but it doesn’t mean you have to do what they want, especially if you have DH onside.

YANBU OP. Going on holiday every single year for five years straight with your DH's family is quite impressive from where I'm sitting - I know I couldn't have done it! We tend to go away with my family for a week each year, but there are compromises involved and it's not always easy - even when you're on the same page politically, we accept each other's physical and MH constraints, and we are holidaying in the kind of accommodation we all like (a quiet villa with pool).

Just do your own thing from now on when it comes to holidays and limit your exposure to these toxic people. Allow your DH and DC to spend time with them, but put your MH front and centre - particularly as your DH's family don't seem to believe in depression. A lot of people don't. I have a friend with two autistic DC and her ILs don't believe autism exists and that firm parenting is all that's needed. There are a lot of ignorant people around, unfortunately.

YANBU. Why would anyone endure a holiday that they hate? A week in a busy, noisy, resort hotel would be my idea of hell, even if I was with people whose company I enjoyed.

When you throw the racism and homophobia into the mix, it sounds utterly intolerable, and their inability to even try and understand how disabling depression can be is nasty.

I have a racist, homophobic BIL and because I call him on it every single time, we limit our contact with them as much as is possible without actually going NC. The thought of having to spend a whole day with people like that, let alone a week, is unbearable.

The fact that they have reacted like this strikes me as being very immature and rather controlling tbh. They seem incapable of accepting that their sort of holiday is simply not your cup of tea and that not everyone is the same.

Perhaps they think everyone should be the same as them, hence the racism and homophobia.

Have a lovely week in Dorset, time to relax and enjoy being with YOUR family.

@BlueJava Thanks, some really good points to mull over there.

I’ve been naive about the “no such thing as a free lunch” thing. You’re absolutely right that people will start to think they have input if you accept all that from them. I’ve felt smothered by it for years, tbh. MIL in particular is a massive overgiver, a big feeder, almost has to do way too much for you, if that makes sense. Already discussed with OH that we’re standing on our own 2 feet now. They can give the boys (their grandkids) bits & bobs (they’re quite well off) but we must be firmer. He sees it as motherly love - but I’m realising that, for me, it’s love/giving with a lot of conditions I’m really unhappy with. So I need to be an adult & take responsibility for that. Thanks again.

@LakieLady think you’ve put your finger on a lot there, cheers. Only diff btw you & me is I think I’ve prob been too “oh I can’t make a fuss for OH sake” instead of calling them out on racism etc. I regret that now. Part of my depression has always been finding it hard to find that balanced “assertiveness” instead of veering wildly btw being a bit of a doormat or just blowing up like a volcano 😂

No such thing as a free lunch very true! There is always a price to be paid, although it's not always obvious what it is.

I would also say to anyone who goes away (or takes their ILs, parents, etc, with them) every year is setting a precedent that those people may expect to keep going and going. IMO with my GPs and now my DPs, if you do something regularly with them - every week or every year - they will expect it to continue and it's really hard to break the arrangement off if you want to do something different. Some people are entirely reasonable and understanding, of course, but if your know your family members aren't it's best not to get into any regular habits.