In law holiday trickiness (+Brexit!!!) 😮

[CEADavies]

Another in law issue I’m afraid!

My husband’s family have always been very good to us financially & practically. But I’m realising that this seems, as time goes on, to come with certain conditions. And I do not like it!

Recently his brother (my BIL) was really hurtful to my husband. He went off on one from nowhere (seemingly) about how selfish we were for going away for one night & leaving kids with PIL (despite the grandparents having agreed to it), when we had decided not to go on holiday with them all this year. Apparently you’re not allowed to do that - decide not to go on holiday on with family! He was quite nasty about it & when my husband (eventually) phoned him to talk about it, he just doubled down & wouldn’t take it.

What is really difficult for us both is that we have been on holiday with them for the last 5 years (mostly paid for by them). The last 2 years we’ve gone to huge hotels in Portugal - noisy, crowded & not my cup of tea at all. I hate that kind of thing - I’m very noise & too many people sensitive and it’s just my idea of hell, tbh. I also have long term depression (for last 20+ years, inc. serious PND after 2nd child 3 years ago). I need, in order to function as a parent, to have at least some quiet time regularly. So I’ve gritted my teeth & put up with the holidays last 2 years for my husband & son’s sakes because they wanted to go. But I really, really struggled. So this year I discussed with hubby & although we don’t have much spare cash as I’m only freelance part time, we said we’d go alone. We were quite happy to go with his family for kids sake but we didn’t want to go to a large hotel - rather a small villa or quiet cottage. They said no, they didn’t want to do that. So we said, OK we’ll go alone. None of this was said with attitude as far as I’m aware as husband spoke to them about it - and he tried carefully to explain how hard it was for me with my depression & lack of peace etc. We thought this was reasonably said but unfortunately both PIL & BIL decided to take massive offence at this.

Then when I discussed this with my MIL earlier she doubled down too. Of course she’ll defend her older son (hubbys brother) but I explained how unfair it felt to have the attack from BIL. I was in tears talking about how much my husband helps me (“yes I’ve noticed how much he does” she said and “I know you have ‘difficulties’” all in a non emotional tone!) and how difficult it is to parent with a mental illness & how nasty it felt for his brother to begrudge him one night away that he rarely has. Apparently no. It’s selfish of me not to take the boys to Portugal with them.

Apparently it’s their decision what my sons should do - and even I should do - with our holiday. I don’t think it is. AIBU?

Background: not trying to get in a political argument here, each to their own, but my in laws are all fervent Brexiters. They’re extremely right wing, racist, homophobic etc, and I’m not. I’m much more liberal and very anti Brexit. This has definitely left a sour taste in the mouth over the last 2 years. They know I disagree with them. I’m not sure if they realise how much!😂

Op, I don't think you should feel bad for 'accepting' free holidays from them previously, in fact that's a really strange way to look at it. You went along with it under pressure from them and because you thought that's what your DH & DCs wanted.

My PILs used to be very like this and quite controlling (esp. MIL) and they weren't even paying! However, they have changed a lot now, mainly down to the appalling way they treated BIL's wife after they had DCs. They played a large part in the break up of that family and it has affected them very negatively. They still ask, but don't push it. A/L is limited and time together for you, DH & DCs should always come first.

I also lost sympathy when you did the brexit = racist bit. that makes you as bad as them.

clearly your principles have had a price in the past. well done on finally realising that making a stand can mean losing out.

I think you have nailed it with no such thing as a free lunch.

Your ILs sound like they like to maintain control of their children, and do so by big personalities and money. BIL has been used as a flying monkey here to try to reel you back in now you have tried to make your own, perfectly reasonable decision to have a different holiday.

While your DCs love your ILs very much now, how much will they love them when they are teens and start having their own ideas of what they want to do? Or will your ILs just maintain the love by undermining you by giving them money you and your DH can't afford?

I would strongly suspect your mental health will improve the less you have to do with the ILs and the more decisions you and your DH get to make about your lives and how you parent your own children.

Your husband's family are far too involved in your life. I've no idea why they feel entitled to be part of the discussions as to your holiday plans. You're not obliged to holiday with them every year and for ever more.

Stop engaging with them. Share less and create some distance between you and them. This is a much healthier dynamic. Also, your MIL taking over probably doesn't do much for your mood and self esteem. You need to take the lead, not her.

OP didn't say Brexit=racist. She said that her ils voted for brexit and are racist. Just statements of fact there.

OP, I couldn't be bothered. Holidays are supposed to be relaxing and fun.

They sound like a bunch of arseholes.

I would limit contact. Don't engage in petty arguments. Don't go on holiday with them. Be civil and pleasant when you have to see them. If they are continually horrid then you may have to reduce/cut contact.

@couchparsnip my husband doesn’t challenge their views per se, but he doesn’t share them totally either. He’s still quite a bit more conservative in his attitude than me, which is fine - we all have differing views and he discusses them open mindedly. We’re all brought up with different values. But even he was shocked & saddened when my BIL joined UKIP 3 or 4 yrs ago, and once in my hearing called a black footballer (sorry for any offence saying this) a “monkey” (weird unpleasant 70s throwback). My hubby thinks his brother has become a little depressed/unhappy/bitter in his early middle age & I think there’s some truth in that. He doesn’t have his own kids, and is in a bit of a (from the outside it seems anyway) strange, unloving relationship, where I suspect he feels quite powerless himself.

How many holidays do you go on and how long is this holiday for?

If your husband and sons love going, then I would probably suck it up for say a week, and do something separately. It sounds as though your PIL are quite hands on and helpful with the boys, so perhaps you can take the opportunity to have some time for yourself. Go somewhere away from the hotel, nice and quiet, take a book, put your feet up, coffee or a nice glass of chilled white.

I am an ardent Remainer, but I don't let it interfere with my personal relationships. We live in a democracy, after all.

@AnnaMagnani thanks Anna, helpful points.

@AStatelyPleasureDome the politics thing is a kind of background miasma for me, a negative air that’s definitely affected my feelings toward them - although I’ve tried not to let it, it has. I’m sure it’s a failing in me but there you go.

Having to bite my tongue on family visits has become almost intolerable. BIL also copied something I put on Facebook (poss about Brexit, not sure as they won’t say) & sent it to his MIL. It’s horrible because I hate their views (which I don’t apologise for, they go against my core values) and my Facebook is private space, and it’s underhand. The things they’ve said about black people, gay people, immigrants - nasty, nasty stuff - but that means nothing apparently! I feel like I’ve woken up & found myself in a family who (though they think themselves way “above” this) wouldn’t be out of place on Jeremy fucking Kyle. It makes my stomach turn, tbh.

@longwayoff Yep, I need to get way more FU. Think this incident is a bit of a wake up call for me on that score!

FFS why do people insist on trying to impose their will on others ? Just live your own life and respect the views and will of others. See my alcohol being forced on me thread.AIBU

Only diff btw you & me is I think I’ve prob been too “oh I can’t make a fuss for OH sake”

There is another big difference, too, OP - the rest of DP's family can't bear BIL either! (He's actually DP's BIL, not mine - married to DP's DSis).

MIL (pro-Brexit but NOT racist or homophobic, and quite lefty) chuckles away and will quietly agree with me and gently stand up for me with things like "Lakie's got a point there" and so on; DP's other BIL won't say anything at the time but pisses himself laughing afterwards and admires me for standing up to him, and DP's SIL will join in, very calmly, pointing out in an academic-sounding way just why he's wrong.

So I am broadly supported by the extended family, which makes a huge difference. And we don't go on holiday with them! DP supports me too, of course, but respectfully and in his own fashion.

One of the others said to him once "Are you going to let him speak to Lakie like that?", to which he replied that he wouldn't dream of patronising me by intervening and that I was more than capable of holding my own in any argument.

But this BIL is just a moron and a bully, what you're going through is more insidious and subtle. Which makes it far worse.

I still struggle to get my head round the business of being pissed off with someone because they won't go on a holiday they hate. It almost seems a bit tribal or something, as though by not wanting the same sort of holiday, you're rejecting them wholesale. You're related by marriage, ffs, not joined at the hip.

@OldBean2 thank you, really kind & supportive words, great help x

You and your husband can choose where to go on holiday. YANBU to want to do that.

The Brexit/racist/homophobe jibe is just childish and stupid. Either they are dreadful, terrible people, (as all those who dared to vote differently from you are) - and no-one in their right minds would let innocent children near them. OR they are part of a family that you chose to marry into, chose to have free holidays from for FIVE years, accept free babysitting from, accept financial help from when it suits you and will continue to see.

I suspect you used the final comment in the hope it would swing the YANBU vote your way.

Stop using the depression thing as an excuse for everything. I have suffered from depression all my life, also my ex DP to the point of being hospitalised, and my beautiful DD is struggling with it now. And my grandfather committed suicide from it. It is not to be used as an excuse for certain behaviours or smugly referred to as if "no-one understands" I am sorry to hear you are depressed - it can be a brutal illness but the problem of the family and the holidays is no different to thousands of others.

Essentially - go on and pay for your own holiday. Work with your DH on how best to handle YOUR own lives and the extended family.

And Brexit - a hugely complex issue - has nothign to do with it

It sounds to me like they enjoy a big extended family holiday every year. They sound disappointed rather than obnoxious. You aren't keen on them or their choice of holiday so you are unhappy with this but went along with it because it was a) cheap and b) you were the only one not happy.
So why doesn't your DH go with the kids and you stay. And do Cornwall as a family later. If he can only get one weeks leave in the summer holidays he could do a long weekend with them and four nights with you?
I don't think it needs to be a massive " thing" and the fact your in laws are happy to have the kids despite the holiday thing shows they aren't drama llamas.

Actually what Painted said was spot on.

Sympathies op,

They sound like many of the brexiteers I know. (Apparently this makes me just as bad as them )

Actually I disagree with painted I wouldn't allow my children around anyone who thought it was acceptable to refer to black people as "monkeys."

Really tricky. They do sound awful and in no way would I holiday with them. Neither would I take a penny from them. It makes them feel entitled, and you obliged which is always a bad thing. I cant think of many families that could holiday together. ?Free holiday perhaps, not good.
I am saddened that they are rascists and homophobic, both dreadful. But please dont lump Brexit into this. There were a lot of reasons for the Brexit vote, the awful few shouldnt tar everyone

OP didn't say Brexit=racist. She said that her ils voted for brexit and are racist. Just statements of fact there.

Exactly.

My parents were racists for years before the Brexit vote. They are also homophobic. That does not translate that all brexiteers are homophobic either. Just that they happen to be racist (which I am not), they happen to be homophobic (which I am not) and they happen to have different political views.

This means as a holiday companion, or any sort of companion is difficult. It means every conversation involves biting your tongue whilst they spout the latest daily mail shite.

They are also hugely controlling, vindictive, manipulative and there are always strings attached with anything they 'force' you to do that they pay for.

As I said OP, you will be very surprised just how much your mental health will improve upon low contact/no contact and using methods to be more assertive in their company.

When I became more assertive, the shit really hit the fan then, and it was no choice but to go no contact.

What a relief. The thought of my children growing up with racist and homophobic attitudes disgusts me.

Do what you want. Accepting a family holiday in the past doesn't mean you are obligated to go every year. I have an anxiety disorder and I need my space and peace, I never apologise for it. Your in laws sound like my idea of hell. Enjoy your holiday your way. No one is entitled to your time.

And Brexit - a hugely complex issue - has nothign to do with it Exactly.
I voted Remain but I don't get all jittery when someone dares to disagree with me. Voting Remain doesn't make you a good person automatically.

Thanks for the responses re Brexit but, as I said, I’m not interested in getting into an argument about rights & wrongs of Brexit. I have my own strongly held opinions on it (I think it’s terrible for this country & has emboldened racists & bullies, whether it was intended to or not) and I’m not ashamed to say that. If that makes someone else uncomfortable, so be it. And I’m aware not all Brexiters are racists, but my PIL are both, and I’m being honest by saying I don’t like either. We all have our core values; we all have our uncrossable boundaries. I won’t apologise for that.

@PaintedHorizons Thanks for your response. I think I see where you’re coming from in part: when we have depression we can see everything as negative & “against us” and we certainly do feel sorry for ourselves. But I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be using it as an “excuse” for? I’m simply stating my reality. Feeling smothered & controlled & being with others constantly on noisy holidays are all things which impact very negatively on me and are not helpful to my depression. They’re not helpful to me coping and that’s not good for my kids. Perhaps you haven’t heard of “self care” but it’s something those of us with mental illnesses would do very well to practice. And “smug” is usually in the ear of the beholder.😉

If you read my original post carefully you’ll see I “chose” to accept the help for my husband’s & children’s sake. I thought my husband needed the rest it brings & I thought I would feel guilty if I didn’t - because they persuaded me that because they could pay for a “better” holiday, it would be my kids who would suffer without. And my husband felt the same as them. Who wants to do what they are persuaded isn’t “best” for their kids?

My only “fault” there is not being avaricious or selfish, but in not, as another commenter put so succinctly, being FU/assertive enough - being too “persuadable” in the first place. That’s nothing to do with my depression. Quite frankly it’s disappointing to hear someone who suffers from the same illness upholding those very stereotypes & stigma that my MIL has. I appreciate you expressing your view but if you have any other comments that are made without empathy, I’d prefer not to hear them at this time - thank you.