That DS should now work & help to pay his way?

[Anwen24]

DS, just finished uni, is at home and anxious about his future. I'm doing all I can to help. He's telling us that he's bored at home, doesn't like living in the town, wants to go back to uni town asap - where, in fact, he's committed to another houseshare for next year. OK - up to a point I get it but he's insensitive in the way he says it.

I've let him let the dust settle but now I'm asking him to please get a job while he's here.

He gets annoyed when I ask. Has barely worked in the past but now it's very serious. I'm guarantor again for the new place - paid a deposit - and now have to pay summer rent. That and everything else. As soon as his loan has run out in the past, we've had to step in. Even funded a holiday on the promise of being paid back. No very obvious sign of that.

We've no doubt been far too ready to help our financially and no doubt we still are. But I'd meet him half-way if only he'd get a job. He's prevaricating like mad and it hurts like hell.

I have a f-t and a p-t job just to make ends meet. DH work hard and another DS is working (and feels rather resentful towards his brother). I'm seriously having to think about an additional weekend job for myself.

He gets annoyed when I broach the subject and I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. He also has a big bank o/d and that needs servicing. He doesn't grasp just how important it is to be financially responsible or how tight things are for us.

What can I do? He's a loving boy but on this subject he's very, very difficult to get through to.

And OP don't be too hard on yourself. We all want to give our children as much as we can. I over indulge because I didn't have that as a child. Every now and then I have to have a word with myself and remember that being overly kind isn't setting them up well for the future, and I have to pull back. I'm still learning to say no, but I'm getting better!

I dont think you should involve your other DS ......You are the parents.. that are not parenting - its not his fault you are treating them so unfairly...

You will be lucky to have any relationship with your other son....with such blatant favoritism... The alienation will be from you ....I thought my mum had been poor in what she expected from my DB compared to me but your expectations are so low.....

if you have to keep spoon feeding him maybe work out a planned withdrawal and stick to def not paying gym fees/transport while not getting your teeth done that is bonkers -

did some trauma or something happen when he was very young as you are treating him like a baby or as if you feel guilty for something and being disney..
you are bothered he is bored in his home town - sound like you are taking it personaly that he is bored of you... Many young men have families/jobs/ houses of their own by his age..-
if he wont cut the apron strings you may have to ....

Sometimes 'black and white' is also good.
If it suits your purpose literally show him the calculation of your outgoings and the percentage he gets of your disposable earnings.
Actually letting him see it written down might make him realise that you are not messing.

No way should the OP tell him her wages! He is so immature all he'll see is that she has money spare for him.

The fact the OP is having to work in more than one job just to keep him while he sits on his bum should be enough to shift him.

It's incredibly frustrating, OP. Hopefully one day he'll realise how immature he was.

Remind him that a career might be something you like - and might well be a grad thing.

However, 'Work' is usually to earn the money you need to fund the life-style you want.

Brisk and upbeat and clear sounds great.

OP, you still seem to be excusing him a little in your posts? Time for him to man up. Stop funding everything as of today. There was a little of this favouritsm in my family between myself and older sibling and it only breads resentment that I still feel over 20 years later!!

Sorry Op, but you have a parasite in your home. I know that sounds harsh but he is happy to let his parents work themselves to the bone and go without vital dental work in order to subsidise him. Tell him he is not in a position to get "annoyed" when you mention money. You and your DH need to be quite direct & tell him he has to move out unless he starts contributing - best thing would be for him to move to the uni town and start looking for work & tell him you will not be paying the summer rent, so if he doesn't get work he loses the flat. If all else fails ask him to leave. He sounds like he has the makings of a cocklodger, pity the poor GF who ends up with him.

I don’t understand. He’s got his degree yet you’ve signed him up for a student house share next year and he’s looking for graduate work.

Do you mean he’s doing a masters next year? If that is the case he needs to give his head a wobble. Dh came to the U.K. with a masters and one year post masters qualification and spent the first few months in a factory packing then doing removals before getting a better job until he got a “proper” job 18 months down the line.

Thanks, all, again. I do want to get one thing clear, though! The DS who lives at home and works - well, he hasn't always done so and we've had hugely frustrating times with him, too. But now he is and doing his best - philosophical that this isn't a grad job but nonetheless useful experience and by all accounts he's taking it seriously and doing well.

I tell him repeatedly how proud I am of him and, in the past, when he reduced the financial burden on us by working p-t through his masters. He's now reluctant to give us any money at all because of younger DS. It's all very, very difficult and I wish it were otherwise. So younger DS's reluctance to earn money is having implications for our relationship with his brother. I'm sad and tired.

Oh so he finds his home town boring, does he? Well whoopie-doo, welcome to the world of being a grown-up.

He'd be a lot less bored if he got off his lazy backside and found something to occupy himself. Like a job, for instance. Has he asked about part-time work at the gym he goes to?

I’m sad and tired and still not ready to acknowledge I’m part of the problem.

There. Fixed it for you.

You are still making excuses for the younger DS and showing yourself up even worse
the older DS worked part time through his masters so you could fund the younger Prince.....I'm not surprised he doesnt want to give you more money to fund the lazy git...
seriously telling him how proud you are of him! is not worth shit when you are asking him for money to fund his ADULT brothers gym fees

as they say judge people by what they do not what they say ....and what are you doing to your relationship wth older DS -
younger DS is just going to be a horrible entitled Manchild....

@reanimatedSGB thanks, so there’s no merit in taking a job that isn’t a graduate job after uni?

Well, you should be grateful that most graduates do take up a low payed job while searching for graduate work instead of rinsing the system and relying on benefits while looking for something “good enough”.

Honestly, there’s no time to be snobby when you’re trying your best to get on your own two feet. But then I’m coming from a family of a working class single mother and not used to having things served on a plate for me. The bank of mum and dad will not help these entitled kids in the long run...I’ll take what merit I can from my own hard work.

i think lots of grads are bored when they come back - both my older 2 were/are - all their friends are working, the cities they were in had lots more going on, liviing at home can be restricting - dont take this personally - i see this as a sign they have grown up and widened their horizons.

our son also said he'd like to go back and get a job in his uni town. he asked hopefully if we would pay rent and we laughed. think u need to take same approach. let us know how it goes

There is no excuse for not getting a job, we live semi rural and my DS is in exactly same position as yours is. Going back to uni town in Sept but managed to find work at home the same day with local temp agency in a warehouse. You need to put your foot down, no more loans (if he’s reached his OD limit he won’t be able to access more money) I am fairly soft with mine but your DS attitude is disgraceful unless there is an underlying issue we’re not aware of. Get him to sign up with temp agencies now! And get your tooth sorted out

About the student house. Is it a student house or a house share? If everyone else in the house is a student he will also be paying Council tax for the entire property , less the discount for sole occupancy. Has he budgeted for this? My son has been in a house share with non students and this was an issue.
I have a similar situation with DS as he feels, rightly that he will have better opportunities to get work (temp or permanent) in Uni town. We have discussed how many hours of a minimum wage job he needs to work to enable him to do this. If we have to, we will act as guarantors, but he has told us that he has no intention of us paying the rent etc

Dear Ds

I love you dearly, and I'm sorry I've been nagging you. I won't do it again.

You will always have a bed here, and I will always feed you, but we cannot afford any more than that I'm afraid - I'm working two jobs and cannot afford urgent dental treatment, let alone to pay your fares or gym membership.

So I'll be cancelling the gym from next week, and won't be subsidising any more travel to awesome town. I need to do this because my physical and mental health is suffering as a result of your financial demands.

Love mum

It may not be that easy for him to get a job that's worth having. There is no merit in taking a shitty job (zero hours, dangerous, poorly paid, crap management). The sort of entry-level jobs that students and new graduates used to be able to take are now being competed for by people who have families to support, and degrees, and plenty of previous experience. What does he want to do?

Rubbish. Everyone has to start somewhere. And graduate jobs are limited in number and very competitive - sitting in his arse for months on end won’t do him any favours when it comes to applying for what he really wants to do.

I'm (really am) sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think you are equally to blame as your DS is ... probably more so.

Your son's life is spiralling into serious debt and, I think, that you are enabling a lot of that spiral. Yet, despite the things that you acknowledge in your posts, what I am mostly hearing is 'oh woe is me, poor working mum whose generosity is being abused'.

"He signed for the house with no prospect of work in his uni town because he wanted to stay there with friends"

No he didn't. You did. You told us that you signed as guarantor for the house, and we know from your posts that you did so knowing that your son is already in debt and has (as things stand) shown no prospects of being able to pay the rent. You have enabled further spiral into debt.

He has clearly shown that he is anxious about this, is uncomfortable talking about it, is preserving an illusion that that things are okay and that there is (currently) hope of financial stability ... you are enabling this. Holidays, gym memberships, flats, trips to see his girlfriend, is all fodder for his illusion and you are the one who is doing that.

I think you should start taking this all a bit more seriously. I think you should start taking his anxiety a bit more seriously.
I am not in any way suggesting that you should 'cut him loose' financially as clearly (for whatever reason) he is not currently in a state of mind to deal with that ... but I do think you should cut out the crap.
By all means, keep his head above water (in terms of the things that he needs to actually live, like food, but not things like gym memberships, trips, clothes). Help him to live within the boudaries his financial circumstances create, whatever they may be.

Especially, I think you and your husband should start to consider whether this is simply down to laziness, irresponsibility, and lack of parental financial boundaries ... or whether there is something deeper going on.

"though he was anxious during his course but this, now, can't be enough to hold him back, especially as I'm telling him, truthfully, that we can't afford to go on funding every aspect of his life, including his rent, clothes, gym, weekends away"

Yes it could. Anxiety could be enough to hold him back and what you're telling him could simply be enough to make his anxiety worse! Especially when your actions in funding things (that no one can afford) not only give an opposing message to what your saying, but also are making the (financial) problem so very much worse.

As I said at the beginning, I'm sorry, this is harsh I know ... but I think there is a bigger picture here, and that you should consider whether that is the case.

Stop solving issues for him.
He doesn’t have a job so has no money.
You already work TWO jobs, are thinking of getting a third one (are you mad?!?) to basically for your ds expensive taste (gym membership etc...).
STOP. Just stop.

It’s all good to want to help him. But there is what you can and what you can’t do.
I wouod tell him clearly that you can help him with xx amount each month. What you CAN afford wo too many issues, not what HE wouod like!
And then up to him to sort the rest out.
His overdraft is his problem, not yours. Don’t make it his responsibility. Same with the cost of train tickets, him being bored etc...

And btw, your teeth come FIRST there too.

There is lots of merit in taking a shitty job.

If he says how am I supposed to pay for my gym , say I pay for things because I have two jobs. You pay for your things because you have a job.
Seriously op you are doing neither you, your dh or either of your children any favours until you fix this. You should apologise for having spoilt him in the conversation you have.

I wouod also review with the fact that you are his guarantor for the flat.
Please make it clear to him that it in no ways means yuare going to pay if he can’t.
If he can’t pay, that’s the end of the rental agreement!

He clearly wants to keep the lifestyle and lack of responsibility that he had as a student and to stay in the student vibe. I always felt a bit sorry for people who did that- hoping to hang on to that life.

I wonder why so many kids want to go to university, when they have no idea what they want after a degree and either can’t get a graduate job, or don’t know hat direction to go in. You have to keep body and soul together though and so does he. He does not get to live off you indefinitely surely. You’re funding everything, if he doesn’t work, he doesn’t go to the gym, go out with his friends, share a house with them, but food or pay bills. Some straight talking needs to happen.

I wish I had a parent like you!

I didn't have any financial support at uni and had to go where there was work, and get paid work at every opportunity as I had no 'home' to run back to.

It's completely possible he can get paid work. If he's staying with you during the summer, he should get himself around all the local recruitment agencies. They'll certainly have something to offer him, if he is prepared to accept anything, and to be honest, he should be. When I student I did factory work, call centre, glass collecting in a bar, office work and care work. Not all at once, obviously, but whatever I could do to pay the bills, sometimes just literally sticking with it until something better came along. Lots of places take on students/just finished uni people for the summer.

I say this from the prospective of someone who has never had a job job. I actually know a lot if people who haven't. They've give straight from university to graduate jobs. But that is because they were all raised in an environment where working in a pub, even if was part time to make extra cash was unthinkable. Their parents enabled them to live without a job while studying and they knew that 5his mean that they had to work hard enough that they would be garubtee at the end of it. Unfortunately it sounds like he has got the wrong end of the stick with thus whole not work g during uni thing. He's not going to get one on his own unless he has no other option. Just stop giving him money. He will have to get a job won't he? The fact that he is so bored at home will only prompt him to get a job extra quickly.