To wish schools didn't have uniforms?

[bluebird14]

I hate them

When my mum worked in a secondary school, there were plenty of kids who only had one set of uniform for an entire week. Having uniform rules does not compel parents to buy appropriate quantities. Other kids can sniff this out if they are mean in that way.

Officially, staff (she was support staff) weren't meant to intervene, but there was plenty of instances of TAs, admin workers and even teachers taking kids' shirts home to wash, and keeping stashes of spare clothes for them.

Mum also used to supply at least a couple of students a year with headlice treatments as well.

Oohmavis I do see your point - though in this hypothetical non uniform society your mum would get grief from the school if you were dressed in rags. At least these days - there would be child protection issues raised for sure if you were constantly ill Kempt. We have it now even with uniforms in my school- we flag up when kids start looking less presentable/smell/clearly haven’t had their clothes washed.

I didn't have a uniform in primary school but that's 25+ years ago now. Honestly no one bothered about designer stuff and everyone wore M&S or whatever.
I would HATE to be sending kids to a non uniform school today as the pressure to fit in with Abercrombie, Hollister, Vans and whatever other labels there are would be absolutely horrendous.

Uniform and the magical thinking it engenders - that it is a cure for everything from bullying to social inequality (because of course these are non issues in UK schools thanks to blazers ) is a ludicrous anachronism that causes the rest of the world to look at our obsession with it with a mix of bemused incredulity. It's embarrassing to think that because I live here people think I buy into the monumental horseshit expressed in support of it. None of the claims made in favour of uniform have even the remotest relation to fact. Not one. And yet we still demand that children wear it. It's crazy.

I would HATE to be sending kids to a non uniform school today as the pressure to fit in with Abercrombie, Hollister, Vans and whatever other labels there are would be absolutely horrendous.

It's not.

you don't need to wear beach wear to show your understanding of a subject. By wearing "smarter" clothes - no one asks you to buy a suit, you show that you take things a bit more seriously. It's not that difficult. Would you turn up in front of an examiner unshaved (for men), unwashed and in a onesie?

I'd wear whatever I felt like wearing that day. It's very unlikely it would be anything smart.

I would demonstrate I took things seriously by answering the questions accurately and clearly.

I've no idea where this bizarre world is in which examiners actually care what you wear as opposed to whether you can actually answer the questions.

I live overseas and have a lot of US friends.

Every summer there is a rash of stupid posts/threads/arguments about dress code rules.

This school has this rule, this is unfair, no it isn't, why are only the girls being told this rule, why shouldn't kids wear strappy tops to school if they want to, because it's distracting, no that's slut-shaming, my school says no strappy tops but sleeveless tops are OK so how many centimeters wide do the shoulder bits have to be before it stops being classified as a strappy top, boys shouldn't be allowed to wear baggy clothes because gang culture, OMG that is a racist comment how dare you......

etc.

etc.

etc.

Seriously. It is easier to have a bloody uniform. With the possible exception of sixth form IF they have a suits-and-shirts dress code instead.

I can see dress codes or no-rules being fine for certain types of schools with certain types of intakes, where virtually all kids can be trusted not to push the boundaries. For most schools, I think uniforms are easier.

YANBU

My kids now go to a non-uniform school after 4 years at a uniform primary. It's way easier to have one set of clothes that they can wear whatever day of the week it is. There's no panicking when I realise on Thursday night that they haven't managed to stretch their 3 pairs of trousers out for more than 4 days and have to get a pair washed, dried and ironed in time for the morning. There's no wasted expense when one of them grows out of their "school shoes" 5 weeks before the summer holidays (come to that, there's no need for the expense of "school shoes" that are totally unsuitable in the rain, snow or playground the way the girls' shoes at DDs' school were). There's no drama when one of the kids finds the only allowed uniform sweatshirt itchy, distracting and uncomfortable around the collar. And so on. We can get them practical, comfortable, suitable clothes that they like. It goes in the wash when enough of it is dirty (no weekend laundry routine). They wear what's clean and they like every day. They don't get told off or hassled at school. Clothing just isn't an issue anymore the way it was with uniform.

When we moved lack of uniform was one of the things I was hoping for in a school because I went to a non-uniform in my final 5 years of school and there was far less hassle and drama over clothes than in my previous school that had uniform. I managed to learn just fine, just as I managed at uni without a uniform. I was not well off at school and in my uniform school was subjected to teasing and humiliation because it was pretty clear from my clothes that we didn't have much, I found it much easier to fit in when I wasn't constrained by uniform rules and the expense of having a whole other wardrobe for when I wasn't in school.

I would prefer a dress code to a school uniform ie no labels no football clubs etc and just a common sense approach to things I had a far easier time dressing my daughter for a nursery with no uniform than my son which had one the formal trousers hindered him when he wasn't that good at toiletting himself if I had been able to put him in a pair of joggers it would have been easier

I think they are a good idea and kids would be taking far longer to get ready in the morning it's a tough job getting them out the door now.
However I do think the secondary school uniform in particular is very expensive. A full kit if primary (not including bag or pencil case and contents etc but including shoes and plimsoles) with two of everything would cost me about £100 . A full kit of secondary with one of everything except shirts which comes in packs of three cost £200 in small size .
Obviously you usually don't have to replace the whole lot every year which helps a bit. But the initial cost is a lot .
But I also I
think if they wore their own clothes they would have to have a lot more than the uniform especially older ones who wanted to have the latest fashion all the time and this would result in more stressful mornings and more strain on parents finances and some kids more prone to being bullied

Kokeshi123
That's my reservation too. It'd be a different type of battle.

The types of parents who see 'plain black school shoes' and buy expensive branded trainers are the same people who'd be making facebool share posts because their DC hasn't been allowed to wear X Y Z.

Lack of uniform can be great, but to work well it relies on the right culture.

@TwiceAsNice22 twins at DS school wore a different coloured pin badge until most of the staff could distinguish. Is this an option for you?

I agree with Maisy that culture needs to change first. I do however take issue with the belief that children will all be fashion victims who must have the right brands. That is nonsense and it is perfectly possible to raise kids who understand the brand con from a young age and who are able to be individuals.

Hilda but there’s absolutely none of that at DD’s school. It’s a primary but still, anything goes.

And there’s only two rules - shoulders covered and no flip flops. And no staff wasting their time policing uniforms.

Ooh DD’s school is highly inclusive, if there was a child struggling to be clothed adequately they would be on it, I have no doubt.

I am a uniform fan. I read threads about the cost of branded uniform in England with a face like this .

At my youngest's primary school the colours are grey, white and royal blue. The school does sell branded jumpers and polo shirts if you wish to buy them, if not you go to Asda, M&S or anywhere else and stock up on very cheap packs from there. I think his last polos were £3 for 2 and the sweatshirts £4 each. There aren't blazers. No other branded items available.

At secondary it's even simpler - the colours are black and white. They do need a blazer - I've just bought two of those and there were £30 each. And a tie - £5. No other branded school uniform is even available, you simply can't buy branded PE kit, bags, jumpers etc. And this is in a fairly affluent area.

Some English schools appear to be getting it so wrong with school uniform choice and making it far too expensive. If they did what most schools do up here and stick to grey/navy/black trousers with white/blue/yellow polo shirt and red/blue/green jumpers in some cmbination it would make life so much easier for everyone.

I have to agree with MereDintofPandiculation
Where I come from, no schools have uniform. Everyone somehow finds something to wear. Also, kids will always find a reason for bullying.
Never had any issues about knowing what is appropriate, but then again no one dictates pupils' haircuts or what shoes to wear.

"Never had any issues about knowing what is appropriate, but then again no one dictates pupils' haircuts or what shoes to wear."

Many, many US/French/German schools have rules on appropriateness, and even down to hair etc.

I like the 3cs rule.

Clean
Comfortable
Covered up.

We had no uniforms, and still had a lot of fuss over “proper” clothes. Girls couldn’t wear spaghetti straps and yoga pants; boys couldn’t have saggy pants or “gang” symbols (as if teachers knew what those were)

It was a poor, rural area in the US and we STILL had bullying due to not having the right clothes, or dirty/ill-fitting clothes. It wasn’t over labels because you couldn’t designer gear easily, but it was over trendy styles.

Back-to-school shopping is an expensive nightmare for both parent and child. Sure, uniforms are an expensive outlay, but if you’ve never had to do the back-to-school shopping crap (because you HAVE to get new stuff or apparently other kids will notice ) you have no frame of comparison. Then you have to do winter/spring shopping as well.

I also remember anxiety on some mornings over what I was going to wear. It’s astounding how you can have drawers stuffed full of clothes and still seemingly have nothing to wear. It starts early!

When I lived in China, the kids there have the ugliest uniforms. Basically a nylon track outfit with the color determined by your school. I believe some of the posh private schools were starting to go with nice uniforms, because the kids look better and more professional, but most teens go around looking slummy and kind of awful. They certainly seem aware they look like crap.

Honestly? School uniforms just seem easier.

I also just remembered having to line up in middle school so the gym teacher could measure our shorts length (it was a hot day, so most of us chose shorts). They only bothered doing this with the girls, because the trend in those days was for boys to wear long basketball-type shorts.

It was annoying for sure, all schools have dress codes regardless of whether they do uniforms or not. You also couldn’t have colored hair (in practice, just obviously non-human colors) and tattoos (so a few had to wear athletic tape over their tattoos!!)

So again, uniforms just seem easier, from the perspective of someone who didn’t have one, as I would have liked to have had at least one less thing to worry about as a teen.

I love uniform. It's a no brainier for me.

My secondary has just changed their uniform to include a v-neck jumper with tie in school house colours. The kids voted for it.
They also voted themselves into Brexit territory over Blazers where they voted 48/51 in favour of NO blazer. Head says he will revisit it in a year or so.

Our uniform is not very expensive at all.

Just seeing the blatant fashion show that is a mufti day give me a headache. Shorts up the arse crack, crop tops, jogging bottoms down the arse showing pants.....urgh.

I love uniform.

My girls today are each wearing a nice light summer dress.

They cost me £4 each so I really don't give a shit what they get up to in them or that they come home with yellow collars from sunscreen.

They look the same as their friends so no worries about being uncoll etc.

Win/win.

No you are not BU.

Hate them more as a parent than when I was a kid.

Very expensive. (School jumper £19, and such poor quality that they rarely hand down. Home jumpers £6-10, but we have a lot of hand-me-downs and my kids rarely wear jumpers.)

Have to have the exact right clothes cleaned and ironed (when you have a cupboard full of normal clothes which don't need ironing)

That panic when you realise the school shoes have been left in the garden overnight and have been rained on. Do I sent the child, who is now having a meltdown of fear of getting into trouble, to school in trainers. Or is it better to miss a day?

You can still spot the poor kids. They are in trouble because their white shirts are grey and the rest of the uniform has holes in.

And my kids have no opportunity to learn about appropriate clothes for appropriate occasions. Who, in real life, paints in a white shirt and tie? Who plays football in formal shoes? Who dresses a child in a blazer, collar and tie in 25° heat?

I found it much easier to fit in when I wasn't constrained by uniform rules and the expense of having a whole other wardrobe for when I wasn't in school.

This with bells on.

I am not well off. My teen dd desperately needs some new decent clothes, but I can't get her hardly anything because I am going to have to spend over £100 on uniform. If I could spend that £100 on normal clothes that she can wear to school as well as everyday life would be so much happier for her.

I think the only parents that love uniform are those with little kids as theirs is usually dirt cheap or those with loads of money that think children should look smart (like mini adults) and the cost of it all isn't an issue for them. Their children no doubt have all lovely 'normal' clothes aswell.

I actually think uniform makes the poorer children stand out more.

I grew up in Holland where there is no uniform and it really wasn't a hotbed of bullying and lawless behaviour.

Also other comments about lack of uniform in European schools being some kind of utopia where everyone is chilled out about clothes -

SIL is Dutch, and lives in the Netherlands. She (and her daughters) is envious of the uniform my kids have to wear as every morning she is faced with arguments and hissy fits about who is wearing what. When she last visited she watched my kids chuck on their uniforms without any fuss and toddle off to school without drama, and told me I had no idea how lucky I was to live in a country with school uniforms.

Her daughters went home furnished with dd’s outgrown blue gingham summer dresses as they begged her to get some for them!