To wish schools didn't have uniforms?

[bluebird14]

I hate them

YANBU

because they are completely inappropriate for a start

No they're not.

exams are not just about being better, but about how you present yourself,and showing a bit of respect to your examiner by dressing properly is not a bad thing.

I really hope that exams are about demonstrating an understanding of a subject. If how you dress affects your score then something is seriously wrong with the process.

Blerg, I have three children all faffy and indecisive. I can't imagine life in the mornings without the easy uniform choice.

However did any of us manage at primary schools in the '70s and '80s, without the civilising influence of polyester blazers? How did we ever learn anything at all?

I would be more supportive of school uniforms if they consisted of basic, functional clothes like cargo pants and a school t-shirt. Many adults who work in jobs requiring a uniform wear this sort of thing.

Uniforms do nothing to prevent bullying. If you've got bullies in a class that zero in on other kids' appearance, they will know who is wearing last year's trousers, whose mum was spotted coming out of the school "nearly new" shop and who has unfashionable shoes. That's before we get on to hairstyles, stationery and even how you carry your bag (a big thing at my school).

When DD was at school and college, I noticed that the great '90s trainer wars were over. Cheap fashion is acceptable among teens these days.

I really hope that exams are about demonstrating an understanding of a subject. If how you dress affects your score then something is seriously wrong with the process.

you don't need to wear beach wear to show your understanding of a subject. By wearing "smarter" clothes - no one asks you to buy a suit, you show that you take things a bit more seriously. It's not that difficult. Would you turn up in front of an examiner unshaved (for men), unwashed and in a onesie?

I really wish on these threads that people wouldn’t conflate no uniform with non-uniform days. They are blatantly not the same thing yet this gets trotted out on every single one of these threads.

DD is in Year 3 of a non-uniform school and I can safely say it has not ever been a hassle. Clothes are chosen the night before and only very occasionally has she changed her mind in the morning. She has learnt to be practical with her choices based on the day’s activity (eg no rights if she’s swimming after school). Clothes simply aren’t an issue for the children, no-one cares what anyone else is wearing. DD has been living in shorts and a t shirt for about a fortnight.

I wore uniform at my fee-paying school, we were a bunch of absolute Scruggs, I remember there being a fashion for making a hole for your thumb in the sleeve of your jumper. No one gave a damn.

Scruggs? Scuffs!

Aargh! Scruffs!

I am 99.9% sure that your appearance (and how respectful this is to the examiner) has zero bearing on your exam scores. I've done a lot of exams, and looked a total mess for many many of them and there really has not been a negative impact from this. The comfier I am, the better I can focus and the better I will do.

I don't disapprove of uniform though, just think they should be simpler with more choice. E.g shorts/trousers/skirt/dress and polo shirt or shirt or t shirt, with a cardigan or jumper or sweatshirt, no need for a tie, give an optional blazer if you want (my school was so cold I would have jumped at any extra available layers!), Logos should be sew on yourself. No ridiculous rules over the colour of your socks. Sports uniform again should be as simple as possible with no uneccessary logos.

Ah, here’s ikee whanging on again about what’s appropriate and inappropriate.

• my post assumes written exams - to which I definitely showed up unwashed, with unbrushed hair and several day old clothing on sometimes.

my post assumes written exams

mine were about oral tests

Clothes simply aren’t an issue for the children

Unless they don't have any. Your children have no issues because you buy them clothes, you wash their clothes and there's enough variety for them to choose appropriate clothing depending on the day's activities.

Some children aren't as fortunate and a uniform is the one thing their parents must buy for them.

Having no uniform would only work if the bureaucrats in school offices could step back and say that any clothing is allowed (barring offensive language). Having green hair or wearing ripped jeans has absolutely no effect on a child's ability to learn. But if they didn't have a uniform they would still feel the need to impose arbitrary rules about what clothing is 'appropriate'.

'Appropriate' is very subjective. Just because you don't like the way something looks doesn't mean it is inappropriate. Stiletto heels for PE, that's inappropriate, as in will not be suitable for the activity at hand and could cause injury.

Miniskirts that you think make girls look slutty, or ripped jeans you think look scruffy are not 'inappropriate' for sitting at a desk as they don't stop the wearer from reading and writing.

Ooh the school is in a pretty deprived area and has a diverse mix of kids. You can’t get uniform as cheaply as you can get stuff in Primark or H&M, can you? Which is where I get DD’s stuff, mainly. No issue with having to get specific shoes, anything (other than flip flops) is allowed. And I do think that with no uniform, what anyone wears becomes an absolute non-issue, there’s no judgement.

I don't disagree with uniforms in principle but I think they are very unflattering in lots of girls. No adult woman in their right mind would choose to wear a pleated skirt, a shirt, a v neck jumper and a blazer, especially if she had no choice over necklines or skirt length which would actually suit her.

When I finished year 11 25 years ago we could wear any grey or black skirt, white shirt or polo shirt and any bottle green jumper, plus the school tie. Any coat, shoes and bag within reason. I look at some of the girls now in their wool kilty monstrosities and feel so sorry for them as most of them look crap in it and they must know they do.

It totally depends on the school's policy as to what they allow. In my opinion all uniform, in every school should be available for purchase at supermarkets.

But you're able to get packs of polo shirts, plain grey school trousers and non-logo sweatshirts extremely cheaply and yes, cheaper than H&M and Primark. You'll have to buy that bundle once a year if your child follows the average growth curve and they're fairly easy on their clothes.

And you think there may be no judgment, but it's less about how others perceive the child than how the child perceives themselves. If a child is in poverty and has to go to school in the same three t-shirts and one pair of leggings week-in week-out, are they going to be focussed on their learning or are they going to be dealing with embarrassment and shame about something they have zero control over?

OohMavis thats no reason to enforce a uniform on the entire school though. There are other ways of helping children who were in your position.

I know that feeling and I remember how grateful I was for my school uniform. My mother knew that she had to buy it or she'd get grief from the school. If there was no uniform policy she would never have bothered and I'd be dressed in rags...

I think it's a pretty valid reason for a uniform, but then I'm obviously biased!

OohMavis I understand that. There are still other ways to help children in that position though.

Vandews, I disagree, I think it makes a huge difference. When my girls are dressed the same, I find it hard to tell them apart and I’m their mother. No one else will be able to. They are at 4 year Kindergarten now and the way the teachers tell them apart is by their clothes (they often choose to wear quite different clothes).

I think school uniform is a good thing but it needs to be more accessible. Things like black school pants + white polo shirt + blue jumper + school tie would be better, since 3 of those can be bought from a super market or primark, and the tie isn't something that would be grown out of.

I'll shut up after this as I know I'm going on, but what are these other ways?

There are more and more families and children falling into poverty every day, how are we going to help them all? Will the teachers help? Social services? Have teachers got the time to identify these children and direct them towards help that's very unlikely to be there? Where's the funding?

A simple uniform provides so much for so little.

I can take or leave them as a thing. Taught in range of uniforms and non uniform schools.

I've worked in a non uniform school ans loved it. There was a dress code and students got on with it. Behaviour was amazing (but then that was instilled into the pupils by home and school - none of this 'well I told my DC to ignore X Y Z and I'm proud of them for arguing because teachers need reminding they don't get blind obedience' )

I don't think it would work as a norm in UK schools though because the culture is bizarre. So school say 'plain black school shoes' and some parents decide 'fuck being a responsible adult. I'll buy a pair of black trainers that cost £80 with branding on the side and then whine when school tell me they aren't school shoes. Then I'll get my sadface on social media and ask other bafoons if they think a pair of sodding trainers are school shoes.'.

Or school say 'natural hair colours only' and then someone turns up with purple in their hair and is all angry in the local press because the school is ruining their child's education.

In short, there's a reasonable chunk of absolute idiots who think that even the simplest rule doesn't apply to them.

Ideally for me there would be a simple uniform, easy to source, affordable with a range of options for pupils.