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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Was your daughter on a school trip at Alton towers today?

675 replies

Zzz1234 · 29/06/2018 18:42

Was she late for her bus? did the teacher lose his rag at her in the middle of the entrance area? If so is she ok?

Can’t believe what I saw today, two girls were 20 mins late back, yes they should be in trouble but they did not deserve some teacher screaming at them, I was 75 metres away and could hear everything I felt so sorry for the girls. I was in a queue and I wasn’t talking about it to the other people in the queue, I was about to go over, but another teacher did.

Would love the name of the school to make a complaint to. Heat is not an excuse, I have lived in hot countries and never saw a teacher lose it like he did.

I know it’s not Aibu but posted here for traffic....

OP posts:
crunchymint · 29/06/2018 23:08

wagil Any adult trips I have been on, the company say clearly they will leave if people are not back on time.

MissMarplesKnitting · 29/06/2018 23:08

I'm not going to justify the fact I can raise my voice and shout "enough!" really sodding loud then smile, apologise to those who were quiet and carry on teaching.

LuMarie · 29/06/2018 23:09

A male teacher should not be screaming so loudly at students that hundred of people can hear and are watching and another teacher has to step in. It's humiliating, upsetting if they were in tears and frightening.

No excuse for doing this, no matter how stressed, worried, hot a teacher is, salary meanwhile has nothing to do with anything when it comes to professional behaviour! These are severe and apparently uncontrollable anger issues, as other teachers have said, this is not the way to deal with students who do this.

It is more impactful to give a very serious very intense low toned, "Have you any idea the difficulties you have caused... we will be discussing this later with your parents, now get on the bus and sit quietly until I tell you otherwise".

I never shout or raise my voice and I've been told many times that if I choose to assert myself in objection to something, I can silence anyone because I am calm, in control and serious.

An adult should be screaming like this at students, if parents choose to shout in their home when they feel it's an appropriate way of communicating, then that is their choice as a parent. A teacher should not be doing this. A parent would likely want to deal with their child after something like this, but only they have the right to move into personal space.

It may well be flagged with the school if the students mention it to parents and the parents are concerned. Yes the students disobeyed and didn't take enough care it seems, causing inconvenience, but there is no excuse for such anger, humiliation and loss of control. Where does it stop? Plus if the teacher is losing the plot on trips like this, maybe there needs to be more support or preparation, maybe the teacher is struggling and needs help. Of course it should be flagged with the school.

Thecrabbypatty · 29/06/2018 23:10

Also qwertyuiopy it has been noted that you haven't taken queen up on her offer for teaching work experience? Why is that? You would be so good at it from the sounds of things!!

CadyHeron · 29/06/2018 23:11

A male teacher should not be screaming so loudly at students that hundred of people can hear and are watching and another teacher has to step in

What's the fact he's male got to do with whether or not the teacher should be shouting? Confused Hmm

qwertyuiopy · 29/06/2018 23:12

I doubt it’s just me. I expect a lot of parents read MN and are glad their children are not subjected to the abuse we read on here and laughed about by teaching staff.

Dermymc · 29/06/2018 23:13

OP NEWSFLASH
It was supposed to make them feel like crap!

Of course 20 mins late is an absolute piss take and would have made them bloody late back.

Thirtyrock39 · 29/06/2018 23:16

I have got as far as SimplySteves post about knowing the teacher and they are well respected thank god for that- I was just about to post that contrary to a lot of current opinion good teachers will occasionally really shout when it's called for - op you should be utterly embarrassed of yourself for trying to name and shame based on a two minute observation - you have no idea what led up to it what these girls behaviour had been like that day etc etc - there could be a medical reason you just don't know so you can't then try and cause trouble on a national forum.
My child is in year 7 in a special measures school and the behaviour I hear about from her of other year 7s is shocking and I could do with this teacher coming to our school to lay down the law to be honest

mathanxiety · 29/06/2018 23:18

BoneyBack
Where we differ is that you believe that he lost control, and its not that I believe that teachers don't, just that we have nothing to say that he did and that when he was approached his wind down was instant.

Instant wind down can also happen when one gets the equivalent of a smack in the gob with a wet fish. Pulling rank ever so tactfully can have that effect. Giving an icy look can too.

I am sure we are all familiar with a scene in a crowd, maybe in an indoor exhibit at the zoo, or at an aquarium or such, and there is a general hubbub of voices, when we suddenly become aware of the voice of some parent losing it with their child - you can tell by the tone, the decibel level, that things are escalating fast. The general hubbub can often subside on such an occasion. We know what is happening. People have an instinct for this. When you are 75 metres away, as the OP was, and can hear every word someone shouts, it is likely that this was not your average telling off.

If he didn't lose control, and this was an act akin to what MissMarples does, then shame on him - there are parents who damage their children by playing games like this.

And if he lost control, he shouldn't have. This sort of stunt happens all the time on school trips. Always has, always will. Experienced teachers know how to deal with it.

tremendous · 29/06/2018 23:18

Gosh, I'm astonished at all the teachers who seem to think this is acceptable in the circumstances. Of course it's not. Absolutely reprimand them but don't verbally abuse them. If what happened is as the op describes it could well be a criminal act (public order).

QueenoftheSilverDollar12 · 29/06/2018 23:19

When will I pencil you in for then @qwertyuiopy? Sounds like you'll be a fab end to 4Y8's week 😃 it's easy when you know how. And remember the adage "connection before correction". And no shouting.

planetsweet · 29/06/2018 23:20

Thirtyrock39 And you believed that?!

planetsweet · 29/06/2018 23:22

To the teachers having a bit of “banter” on here. You don’t know when to stop do you? You’re a bit, well, coming across as chavs!

CadyHeron · 29/06/2018 23:24

If what happened is as the op describes it could well be a criminal act (public order).

Dear God, get a grip. A teacher yelling at a pupil for being late back is a criminal order offence?!
I'm not a teacher, I'm a parent. You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher if this is the sort of shite they have to put up with!

Failingat40 · 29/06/2018 23:24

Agree @Zzz1234 that this was entirely inappropriate and unprofessional.

How can it be in this day and age where men are frequently arrested for domestic abuse which can 'just' be verbally shouting at his family putting them in a state of fear and alarm, yet here we have a trained teacher verbally abusing two young pupils ?!

Genuinely at a loss to see the logic in all the teaching protectors on here. MN is full of teachers, clearly.

Guess what teachers, you are not above the law.

Practice what you preach and lead by kind example not by bullying and abuse!!

Thingiebob · 29/06/2018 23:27

Every sympathy for the teacher I'm afraid.

manicinsomniac · 29/06/2018 23:27

Not only were the girls 20 minutes late but they will have broken the groups rule. Schools don't let children go off alone in groups of fewer than three - you need one to stay with one in trouble and one to fetch help.

They would also have made them more than 20 minutes leaving because the group would not have been waiting at the bus. The buses don't come into Alton Towers, they're in the coach park and you wouldn't let Y7/8s wander over to the coach park alone, you'd meet them at the entrance where the shops and fountain are. Then they'd have another 10 minutes to get to their bus and get settled on it.

So they did deserve a pretty angry reaction to their eventual arrival.

BUT - I do know what OP means about the kind of shouting that just feels too much and is uncomfortable. I've witnessed it twice from colleagues and on both occasions the teachers were male and really did have a bully streak in them. They seemed to relish making children fear them.

The first time I was only an NQT and I'm ashamed to say I stood there and did nothing while a 10 year old sobbed hysterically in front of 50 other children and the teacher screamed that he had to explain to the others that they'd all lost a privilege because of his behaviour (they were trusted to be somewhere and he broke bounds to get a ball so none of them could go there anymore). The child was obviously incapable of speaking at that point. The second time was to a whole year group of children and I did step in that time but I was much older and more experienced.

So I think OP is probably BU but not necessarily.

BoneyBackJefferson · 29/06/2018 23:27

mathanxiety

Yet neither of us knows which it is.

But you have it down so that he cannot, whatever he does, be anything other that either an abuser or someone that lost control.

someone posted
I can silence anyone because I am calm, in control and serious.
The truth is that this "low toned" system doesn't always work.

Different methods for different children/classes.

QueenoftheSilverDollar12 · 29/06/2018 23:29

It's the start of the summer holidays. Banter is allowed. Or has there been a ban I haven't heard about? Wait till I tell the kids I've been called a 'chav' by a random on the Internet! My street cred will increase no end. Cheers @planetsweet 😃 canny find chav emoji

Timeisslippingaway · 29/06/2018 23:31

For a teacher to act like this is unacceptable. Children do not need to be screamed at for making a mistake. Into trouble yes bit humiliated in front of a load of people in a public place, no.

If that was a parent screaming at their child everyone would be horrified.

I am a childminder and I really doubt, no matter what a child in my care did, there parents would not be happy if they walked up to my door at night to hear me screaming at the top of my lungs at one of them. Infact o think it's safe to say they would take their child away and never bring them back.

Always with this shit that teachers are human too. Yes those girls deserved a telling off but I think if someone is actually wringing on mumsnet about it then it was probably pretty shocking.

Thecrabbypatty · 29/06/2018 23:32

planetsweet don't be such a wet blanket.

MissMarplesKnitting · 29/06/2018 23:33

Truth is, we don't know what actually happened.

We don't know if there was some other incident(s) previously with these kids.

OP saw one element, and has deemed the teacher an unprofessional bully, and child abuser.

Branleuse · 29/06/2018 23:33

I think it sounds quite harsh, but tbh can you imagine being in charge of a large group of teenagers at Alton towers in 30 degree heat and not getting angry if some annoying little bastards wouldn't come back on time when everybody else bloody managed it.
It's not like he threw a blackboard rubber at their heads. I don't think it will do them any bad

Rainuntilseptember15 · 29/06/2018 23:34

Planetsweet if you were a teacher you’d know better than to use a pejorative word like chavs to describe anyone.
I’m wondering now, when does discipline become verbal abuse? I’m assuming he didn’t call them selfish cunts or anything as extreme as that. He probably went too far but should he be reported his boss? We don’t know if they were genuinely sorry or being entitled madams about it. Maybe next time OP could helpfully video the exchange for us Hmm

Thecrabbypatty · 29/06/2018 23:36

queen and I are putting together an extremely educational show format. And as for calling us chavs, well that is extremely rude to other chavs. I don't know a single one who would be caught dead as a teacher.