I think DH is upholding the glass ceiling (not DIY). WIBU?

[Pa1oma]

DH has a company which employs maybe a thousand people, of which probably about 40% are women. It’s not a traditionally male industry like construction, however, in 15 years, there has never been a female director. Whenever I’ve asked him why this is, he says he would like this to change but no women seem to apply.

Then last night I heard him in the phone to someone discussing restructuring the board of directors and his words were, “She’d be worth consideration, but she’ll probably have a baby or something soon” . When he got off the phone, I told him what I’d heard and asked him if he knew for a fact that this woman was pregnant. He said, “Well I wouldn’t know but she’s in her late 30s and I think she’s been discussing it”.

His argument is he’s not going to risk over £100k on someone if he’s not sure they’re going to see “the next phase” through. My argument is, he is not in a position to presume anything about anyone. WIBU?

She deserves to know though op. She's working her arse off and has director potential. She's never going to be director because of her biology (some twat's illegal act as a result of her biology).

You should find out who she is and tell her.

If the woman in question gets wind of it she can sue him personally as well as the company for discrimination.I'd ask him if he thinks it is worth the risk? A claim like that if successful would attract a pretty high award from the tribunal.

Why is it “massively disruptive” to a business when someone takes maternity/paternity/shared parental leave?

Recruitment is a PITA, yes. But you have months to plan (accident/emergency/long-term sick is more disruptive), you can re riot someone great to cover, you can promote your existing staff up and cover their role instead, and you can have a brilliant planned handover.

You should find out who she is and tell her.

Whatever you choose to do, don't do this.

@Nosquirrels - DH's firm had one new hire who had 3 kids in 3 years, then quit. Mat pay was 3 years, client chargeability was 6 months. Cost of recruitment, mat pay, mat cover.....financially for a short term hire is terrible. For long term, loyal hire ....not an issue anymore than someone needing compassionate leave or any other life circumstance.

Of course you don’t split it over it,if it’s an otherwise happy and safe marriage
On mn people can be too quick to the LTB mantra,taking a strident approach they’d not enact in RL
You acknowledge your misgivings, state your POV.of course he’s not compelled to change.
And you both live with incongruent views on equality. It becomes a stress point if you both can’t live with your ideological differences

Yes what does it matter that your husband doesn't respect women? Who needs respect when you have money?

To me your DH is not just upholding the glass ceiling, he's the joists and beams beneath it and to top it all he's regularly polishing and buffing it! The calls to leave your DH on principle are a bit silly. However, if I were in your shoes I'd certainly tell him that I could never recommend employment to a female in his firm as there's no prospect of board level attainment. You could write a Glass Door review!!

@Spaghetti - "who needs respect when you've got money"....what planet do you live on?!

It seems to me that you have married into inequality - that's your lifestyle.

I don't understand why you are surprised that your DH behaves in the way he does when that is exactly the pattern that your life is lived by.

The world is changing thankfully. Men like this are getting into trouble the world over.

I would urge a word of caution here OP. What you have posted is discriminatory. It is in fact illegal as many posters have already pointed out. Are you so sure of your anonymity that the matter couldn't be traced? It'd take an obsessive but believe me, if I'd faced discrimination at work or from a prospective employer - I'd be obsessive!

One thing you could do OP that would be constructive and help matters move forward on a more liberal (or dare I say modern) basis - would be for you to encourage your DH to ditch the non-exec roles. From what you have said, he's not suitable to hold them. Non-execs are very influential and I don't think he sounds like the right person to be guiding companies into the next part of the 21st century

I must admit, whenever I'm at dinners or meetings or what have you and the chit-chat ensues, I always note the blokes whose wives are SAHMs. I'm pretty impressed when the blokes are married to surgeons or hotshot lawyers or driven entrepreneurs. To me it means they are automatically assumed to be egalitarian in their approach. Men that I meet whose wives are SAHMs - I need to be convinced that they're good blokes. This is not unique btw.

Yes of course he’s like this op,he’s doesnt accommodate working women.professionally or personally
I’m not completely surprised op didn’t know what he is really like.
In my experience the partner of these alpha males Rarely know what they’re like in workplace
Because the wife’s don’t work,their domain is home and when home the alpha male defers domestic control to the wife because he considers childcare & domestics women’s work. Non threatened by wife,because he considers home is women’s work. And he won’t fully assert himself or be omnipotent at home because it’s not in his interests.

Op, you need to point out that aside from his comment, no senior women speaks, no in fact it shouts volumes about a dinosaur company culture.

Ah consulting - I used to be in this industry and reckon a lot of women drop out post dc because if they’re married to another person doing the same work or a similarly tough job, that’s very hard to combine with a good family life (as we found). Clients are nkt good at respecting boundaries or being understanding for the most part.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with one person specialising in earning and one person specialising in children, as long as it reflects both people’s true preferences, freely made choices are not a disaster for feminism.

I was being sarcastic Tinkobell.

Sorry just catching up with the discussion.

This particular woman went over to NY to expand things over there. She has an apartment provided by the company and I don’t think she’s badly paid at all. Otherwise she could go elsewhere, I’m sure. Her partner has gone with her by the sounds of it. The thing is, it’s hard to challenge DH on this kind of thing because I don’t have enough info or understanding to do so. He can just say anything to dismiss the subject.

The comment he made was not one I happened to overhear. It was said blatantly in front of me and he looked baffled that I was even picking him up in it. He gave no real explanation at all, but I will mention it again.

Once in the car a few months ago, DS was saying that the gender pay gap is something women are making up (they’d been discussing this at school apparently). DH said very matter-of-fact LG, something like, “Well it might seem like that when you’re straight out if uni, but the fact is women have babies.” He was then saying about how he”s always open to women working part-time etc and more companies should be more flexible. DS was asking if this is why some women have babies late and DH told him it doesn’t matter what age but in DS’s case, don’t think about having a family unless you’re sure you’re in a position to support them because your wife will need time out.

DH is maybe a bit old-fashioned like this, but he definitely doesn’t stand out among his peers or friends. They are all mid to late 40s so not that old. None of them are ever disrespectful about women and I’ve never heard any of them undermine their wives for being SAHMs, working part-time it whatever they do. DH has never once in all these years asked if I’m considering going back to work. I genuinely think it’s never occurred to him. The difference is that I own my own choices, but it seems to me that for many women who are more career-focused, the barriers are hidden in plain sight.

Sorry for the caps - “matter-of-factly”

tbh I think part of your shock is because you have been out of the workplace so you don't experience it day to day the way a lot of women do.

I worked at a senior enough level for a company that was majority male (and a trad male industry too) but did have senior women too. It was a fundemenatally decent company but I regularly sat at high level meetings at which I was the only woman with children. Every other woman was childless. Every man had children. The most senior woman in the company (just below the CEO) was childless. The head of HR and Corp Com were both women - both childless. Every other head of department was a male and had children. I don't think this was a coincidence.

I have seen the visible struggle when it turned out that a leadership team we were selecting was majority female. I heard an otherwise nice decent senior leader say almost the same thing as your dh say about a woman (with a phD which a lot of the men didn't have) "well she had a baby last year and that seems to be a lot of her focus" - meaning she had come back to work but instead of 5 days a week was now doing her work in 3 days a week.

It is so ingrained that even women miss it (as several posters on this thread did). You'd certainly miss it if you only saw the social side of these men. They were never disrespectful about women, never sleazy, generally deeply appreciative of their wives and valued them etc. None of that makes any difference if you are the woman in NYC who would now be a senior director if she were a man.

Op,you’re dp is a prosperous well polished,probably charming caveman.
He thinks he’s being egalitarian by offering pt to women.but won’t tolerate FT women if child bearing age
I suspect you’ve had clues what he’s like,but haven’t picked it up or ignored
Only this last comment,he made freely,in your absence he spoke as he sees it
He’s never given you a hard time because to him wife’s don’t work,their domain is home and when home the alpha male defers domestic control to the wife because he considers childcare & domestics women’s work.
Non threatened by wife,because he considers home is women’s work. And he won’t fully assert himself or be omnipotent at home because it’s not in his interests.

This stood out for me: None of them are ever disrespectful about women.

Not treating women with equity in the workforce is being disrespectful about women. You don't have to pinch bums or talk about boobs to be disrespectful. Assuming that women WILL have babies and then WILL leave the workforce (and helping to force them to do so with your policies!), as he expressed to his son, is being disrespectful. It indicates that you're not thinking of them as fully humans with agency and ambitions and skills--you're assuming a path is set for them based on their sex. It's terrible behavior and the kind of background noise that kids pick up on inherently.

Pallisers - yes I agree entirely.
Lipstick - as I said we both met fairly young. I’d never lived with another “type” of man, if such a thing exists? Also I think attitudes maybe become more fixed as you get older? Even though I’ve been a SAHM, he’s never made me feel belittled for that - not at all. Everything is for the family and the money is for me and the kids. We share everything in that sense. If he was controlling with money or something like that, I wouldn’t live this way. I’ve supported and facilitated him for many years and that’s for sure, but it has always felt like a joint effort. I just wanted to say that in case people think I’m some kind of downtrodden housewife!

None of them are ever disrespectful about women and I’ve never heard any of them undermine their wives for being SAHMs, working part-time it whatever they do

Of course such men aren’t openly disrespectful, they’re charming,smooth skilled communicators. They know when to have that charrming veneer on display. You overheard him,being himself,unguarded. He was not respectful in least,because he knew he wasn’t on display or having to maintain a veneer of being equitable.

They’ll never undermine sah wife,because it suits them.suits their male privilege and is manifestation of what they think women role actually is eg childcare & domestic. You being home has allowed him to progress career unencumbered. Work is his domain, childcare is yours

This stood out for me: None of them are ever disrespectful about women.

Yes, what I meant is overtly - not crude, not obviously sexualising their interactions with women etc. I agree completely that sexism is being disrespectful.

.

I don't really agree with the position you are taking that your DH is not unusual

For me as a partner in a Big 4 accountancy practice - this would have been acceptable 10 years ago. It's not now. Boards of companies who are all male might have been acceptable 10 years ago. It's not now. Boards of companies who shove a token female in as a non-exec were acceptable 10 years ago. It's not now

I think your DH is one of the last redoubts. Help him to modernise and get with the new world.

He is also pretty young to be that dinosaurish. When I think about it the men I described in my post from my company would all be pushing 60 or 70 now. My own dh is older than yours and promotes women the same as men - even those of child-bearing years.

@pallisers, hadn't even read yours! We're entirely on the same pageI just saw it in OP's and reacted before reading on. I actually think it's part and parcel of the same thing, as Lipstick pointed out. In a weird way, it's more pernicious than full-on letches, because it's so easy to gloss over and ignore. My bet is that he thinks of himself as a gentleman who respects women, even though he obviously doesn't think about them as being his real equals. I actually doubt he's doing it consciously or deliberatelymy guess is that it's ingrained and he's never really had an inward look at himself to question any of his assumptions, nor has he been made to do so.

OP, I'm sure your husband is a lovely husband, a loyal friend, and a great dad in his day-to-day interactions. Certainly not discounting the many ways that you love him, and not saying this is a LTB situation. But I do think that he's not a great boss, because great bosses don't undermine their workforces as he's doing.

Imagine being a woman who's worked her ass off for the company, excelled at her job to the point where she's been asked to move to another country to do her stellar work, and still not be able to progress because people assume you'll have kids and thus become a drain on the company. Meanwhile, your colleagues who are men never have that assumption made about them, no matter how many kids they might have. It is so profoundly disrespectful.