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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I think DH is upholding the glass ceiling (not DIY). WIBU?

362 replies

Pa1oma · 29/06/2018 13:04

DH has a company which employs maybe a thousand people, of which probably about 40% are women. It’s not a traditionally male industry like construction, however, in 15 years, there has never been a female director. Whenever I’ve asked him why this is, he says he would like this to change but no women seem to apply.

Then last night I heard him in the phone to someone discussing restructuring the board of directors and his words were, “She’d be worth consideration, but she’ll probably have a baby or something soon” Confused. When he got off the phone, I told him what I’d heard and asked him if he knew for a fact that this woman was pregnant. He said, “Well I wouldn’t know but she’s in her late 30s and I think she’s been discussing it”. Hmm

His argument is he’s not going to risk over £100k on someone if he’s not sure they’re going to see “the next phase” through. My argument is, he is not in a position to presume anything about anyone. WIBU?

OP posts:
postcardsfrom · 30/06/2018 08:08

He’s a dinosaur, and shortsighted. Women have babies and then return to work. An employee can be with a company a long time, they need to develop, many will have timed in their careers where for one reason or another they’re off, away, seconded, not fully engaged etc. His attitude is sexist bullshit and doesn’t belong in a modern company.
And he doesn’t have his best people running his company- when you ignore or put barriers in the way of 49% of the population you aren’t getting the best people, you’re getting some good men and a lot of mediocre men.
I’d be embarrassed to be married to him.

postcardsfrom · 30/06/2018 08:09

You don’t keep good females employees by treating them like this or restricting their opportunities but maybe he’s happy with his boys club at the top.

Original poster
Pa1oma · 30/06/2018 08:20

Yes it’s like a boys club. It’s not just this company either. He’s a non-exec director for various other companies and I think only one of them has female directors, though there are plenty of women at all other levels. That is the reality but I don’t think any of them really think about it.

OP posts:
WilburIsSomePig · 30/06/2018 08:21

I'm not that shocked by this.

I'm more shocked by the people who imply that the OP should immediately leave her husband because of it when their own DH/DPs could quite possibly have the same view as her DH.

It's a shit, unfair attitude but it's hardly a surprise.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 30/06/2018 10:03

A lot of women on mn post their dp is top of his game(they always are) they’re sahp
They then describe how this is absolutely necessary.he needs a wife because cannot shop,deal with correspondence,sort his own kids.adults infantilised by their wife.kick ass at work,can’t shop for clothes?
I’ve met these men before and yes they’re a sort,and they are are toxic
And generally their partners haven’t a clue what they’re like to women in work environment

SlothSlothSloth · 30/06/2018 10:19

I'm more shocked by the people who imply that the OP should immediately leave her husband because of it when their own DH/DPs could quite possibly have the same view as her DH.

Yeah, this is the root of the problem really isn’t it. The widespread nature of sexist attitudes, and how well some men hide them.

“Alpha male” types as a PP called them really do wear their sexism on their sleeves, I think, no matter how many noises they make about inclusivity. Sexism, dominance, entitlement and arrogance is at the heart of their characters - that’s what makes them alpha. So if this is the OP’s “type”, she’s probably going to encounter similar problems with any partner.

But other kinds of men will often be equally sexist, it’s just harder to see it from the outset sometimes... often the nice, soft “feminist” men are the worst of all once you scratch the surface...

Bearfam · 30/06/2018 10:58

I would genuinely consider leaving my partner if I'd heard him say this. Feminism and equality are really important to me so I appreciate this is not the response everyone would have. But you are definitely not being unreasonable.

SlothSlothSloth · 30/06/2018 11:03

Bearfam yes but that really is easier said than done isn’t it. In an ideal world women would avoid getting involved with these alpha types at all, but as it is OP is involved and has a certain lifestyle and she won’t be able to maintain it without him, or without a similarly “successful” man who will be just the same...

Original poster
Pa1oma · 30/06/2018 11:10

When you have 3 children and you have built your lives together, surely you don’t just divorce your husband over something like this - you talk it through and work on them? I’ve been with DH since my early 20s. I’ve never known another type of relationship, nor has he really.

OP posts:
SlothSlothSloth · 30/06/2018 11:20

Yes OP you are right. I think the only realistic route is to try and work on him. While being aware that you might not be able to change him of course, and considering what that might mean for you, if you can live with it or not and so on

harshbuttrue1980 · 30/06/2018 13:10

I remember your comments from another thread - I think you were saying that you have always been a housewife with a high earning husband and had no intention of working again. Is it really surprising that a man who is happy with this turns out to be a sexist?

user1487194234 · 30/06/2018 13:21

I said way up thread that I couldn’t live with someone like this
I didn’t mean you should LTB ,this is your business/marriage
I meant I could not have married/had children/given up work/stayed with someone like this
Terrible example to DC ,boys as much as girls

BrownTurkey · 30/06/2018 13:30

It would be great if you could just make him/them think about it.

mostdays · 30/06/2018 13:38

His argument is he’s not going to risk over £100k on someone if he’s not sure they’re going to see “the next phase” through.

But that's just daft. He can never be sure. Anyone he appoints could resign, or get ill, etc. He could appoint a man who takes parental leave. What a silly way to think about the issue!

lulu12345 · 30/06/2018 13:38

Good grief, I can't believe the OP is getting criticised in this or told she should divorce him - what a lot of nonsense!

This is how A LOT of very senior men think - see recent Hampton-Alexander report.

OP - the great thing is that you've spotted this and nobody is in a better position than you (his wife!) to influence your husbands views on this.

Frankly I understand his worry - he'll appoint someone at great cost, give them lots of responsibility, and they'll leave to have children and he'll be left to pick up the pieces. I think the best argument to persuade someone against this is to realise that this is really short term thinking. Women are increasingly wanting to have children AND senior roles, and they will make sacrifices and work flexibility to achieve both. Try and encourage your husband to give it a shot just once to begin with by promoting one woman to director. He will be accessing so much more talent by doing this, and sending such a positive and encouraging message about equality throughout his very large workforce. Yes, he may suffer some short term pain if she does have a baby and take maternity leave but in the long term, if she's good and earning >£100k, she'll probably want to come back to work after the baby.

RhubarbRhubarbRhubarbRhubarb · 30/06/2018 13:47

I understand his worry - he'll appoint someone at great cost, give them lots of responsibility, and they'll leave to have children and he'll be left to pick up the pieces. I think the best argument to persuade someone against this is to realise that this is really short term thinking. Women are increasingly wanting to have children AND senior roles, and they will make sacrifices and work flexibility to achieve both

It’s completely stupid to single out women and maternity leave though. There are umpteen reasons why someone might unexpectedly leave a post, leaving the company in the lurch. It isn’t just women and it isn’t just maternity leave. But, as usual, women, especially mothers are the target.

Tinkobell · 30/06/2018 14:53

If he's so sorry about a woman potentially having kids at director level...why doesn't he hire an older woman who already has her kids.....he's totally unrepresenting his 40% female workforce at a senior level.....
Have you really taken him to task over this issue OP, or if you did, do you think he'd probably just put it down to being your 'time of the month'?! 😂😂😂
I do relish the day a uterus transplant and the possibility of childbirth can be given to a man.....I think we can take it that the attitudes and benefits will be revolutionised!

lulu12345 · 30/06/2018 15:11

It’s completely stupid to single out women and maternity leave though. There are umpteen reasons why someone might unexpectedly leave a post, leaving the company in the lurch. It isn’t just women and it isn’t just maternity leave. But, as usual, women, especially mothers are the target.

It's not completely stupid. It's a fact of life that only women can have babies and that most women will take time off when they do. Its disruptive to the company when a woman does take maternity leave.

BUT I think we're all in violent agreement on this post that we want to live in a world where women get equal opportunities and are not discriminated for this. This will involve some far sighted employers accepting the cost of mat leave, and doing it for the greater good.

There's no point being idealistic about what we want the future to look like, if we won't also accept the (flawed) reality of the position we're in today. There's also no point in us lot getting exercised and angry on a thread like this if no actual good progress comes of it...

That's why I think we just accept the OP's opinion is what it is, and the OP works on trying to persuade him to take a chance and promote one woman to director. If OP succeeds in doing this she will have contributed way more to feminist progress than anyone on this thread that has written screeds of abuse to her.

lulu12345 · 30/06/2018 15:12

Sorry, should read "accept the OP's husband's opinion is what it is"

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 30/06/2018 15:21

It’s a really tricky one

Many senior women take short mat leave. When you are running a business with hundreds and thousands of people reliant on you 1 year is not viable . I myself only took 6 months as didn’t want someone stealing my role .

I don’t think we are quite ready yet for long mat leave and senior roles

But yes call him in it. Talk to him and see if he realises what a duff decision he is making

welshmist · 30/06/2018 15:25

There are women directors who take this view. In other countries maternity leave is much shorter which is why I suspect you see more female directors

Aeroflotgirl · 30/06/2018 15:34

No women are applying is bollocks, he is ruling them out just in case they have babies, that is illegal.

EBearhug · 30/06/2018 15:35

I understand his worry - he'll appoint someone at great cost, give them lots of responsibility, and they'll leave

This is where this statement needs to stop. People leave jobs for a ton of different reasons, sometimes after not very long, when you've invested time and energy in them.

Also, quite a few women think, "fuck it, I'm going to have children and focus on them anyway, because I'm never going to be given a proper chance to get on, and fighting against the whole system all the time is just exhausting."

Melliegrantfirstlady · 30/06/2018 15:39

Ltb? Are you kidding me?!!

Seriously who on earth would leave a multimillionaire, father to their children, caring husband all in the name of feminism!

I wouldn’t. Let the feminists rage op and express your disagreement to your dh but for the love of god don’t leave him!

Aeroflotgirl · 30/06/2018 15:42

I personally would not leave him over something like this, no, if he is otherwise a good husband and father, that is very ott. We all have things that we disagree on with our partners, nobody is going to agree 100%. But I do not agree with how he is running his business. Maybe he should employ an older woman past childbearing age or somebody who has already has her family.

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