To un friend this person?

[arghhhhhhh]

We've been friends a couple of years - I have a son who is autistic (diagnosed aged 5) and her daughter is in the same class as my son.

Her daughter has always struggled with friendships. She is almost a year older than my son (she's the oldest in the class and he's the youngest) and has made friends - to a certain extent as my son doesn't understand friendships - with my son.

One day I received a message from her asking if we could all go to the park seen as my ds and her dd had become friends. I agreed and thought it was a lovely gesture - I'd never actually spoken to her before. Seen her around school etc but we had never met.

So this was about 1.5 years ago.

Now she does nothing but pester me. And I have some concerns but I honestly don't know what to do. I'll bullet point it as it's easier to explain:

Also please note these are not the actual children's names, I've just changed them myself.

• from our first meeting she explained that she was convinced her daughter was also autistic. She asked me lots and lots of questions about my son and how to go about getting her daughter looked at. I was happy to help at this time as I had no reason to think any different although I couldn't actually identify any autistic traits with her daughter during the play date. But I am 100% aware that that means nothing.

• our meetings carried on every month or so and this is when I became uncomfortable with the friendship. We were sat in a restaurant and the mother was talking about the other children in the class at school In front of both the children. She was saying things like 'every child in your class bullies you don't they Sophie?' 'Chloe is a horrible girl isn't she? She's always nasty to you' 'Ben is constantly picking on you, his mum and dad are horrible people etc'

She also said 'oh Emily is leaving at the end of the summer, you are so happy about that aren't you Sophie? She can go and pick on other people at her new school and leave you alone'.

I could see poor Sophie was so uncomfortable. I asked Sophie directly in front of her mum if these kids were horrible to her and she just looked at me and said 'well sometimes'. I left it at that as I didn't want to pressure her. She also said 'Sophie do you know that Holly's dad has just had an affair?' I was literally open mouthed. I don't even know Holly's parents so have no idea if it was true or not. I backed off with meetings after this for a while.

• the way she speaks about the other children in the class is awful. Chloe for example is a lovely lovely girl. She would never ever bully anyone. Same as Emily who left. All well brought up children, happy, friendly, polite etc. Yes there are some not so nice kids I suppose but you get that in every class. The majority are great with my son and very understanding with his needs. I can't stand how she's saying these things in front of her daughter. She really is one mixed up little girl.

• Sophie started to come to our house after school on her own every now and then. I always ask her how she's enjoying school etc and she always says she enjoys it. I really cannot see any autistic traits in this child.

• her mum constantly messages me about how she is referring Sophie for a mental health assessment but is not getting anywhere with it. She asks me what's going on with my son and seems to be angry that my son is getting help and her daughter isn't! My son is autistic, I have a terrible time with him on a daily basis. He needs help.

• the mother also spends her time constantly bitching about other parents at school. I've done a couple of things socially with her (never on my own but with another mutual friend who has no connection with the school). She has even asked me why I'm friends with one particular parent (who happens to be Chloe's mum!) and has hinted that I don't be friends with her! I see this friend socially all the time as my husband works with her husband and we regularly do bbqs etc. The friend in question cannot stand this! She hates the whole family even though they are all lovely.

• she is also single, she tried dating one of my husbands friends. It didn't work out. Her version was that he wasn't right for her but a nice guy etc. His version was similar but he also admitted he couldn't get to grips with her personality and she was very 'out there' etc and I knew exactly what he meant. However she has not been able to let him go even though they just went on a couple of dates about a year ago. She sent me 3 messages yesterday asking me about some personal things to do with him. Which I do know the answers to but it's not my place to share his personal business. So I just ignored her.

• Final straw is this morning I've had more messages saying that Sophie has been off school all week due to anxiety (to my knowledge she hasn't as my son said he was playing with her yesterday but he can get easily confused so that may be wrong) and then started asking more personal questions about my son! It's like she just wants to Sophie to be just like my son. I don't get it!

Sorry this is so long, don't want to drip feed but I felt I can't explain it properly without getting it all out.
I'm worried for her daughter. I can see she's not a happy little girl but I really don't think it's anything to do with school. I think it's the mother - i honestly think maybe her mum has some sort of additional needs that's been possibly undiagnosed. The only other thing I can think of is that it is a jealously thing? I mean she's single yet the majority if the parents in school are married with nice houses and flash cars - it's an expensive village where the school is situated. And no I am not one of these, I don't have a flash car or a posh house....though I am married. It seems to be she has a major problem with the parents and kids that do lead this lifestyle though.

Should I go to the school about it?

It's so hard to be friends with with this lady. I'm finding I'm having to shut her out as all she wants to do is gain information from me which I'm not comfortable sharing. I don't think she has many friends. She is very loud and out there, very awkward to talk too....I'm sure there is something there that's not quite right but I'm also 100% her daughter is suffering for it. Also Sophie is the only friend my son has, I don't want him to lose that and I know Sophie has no one but my son either.

We have a school assembly this afternoon and now I'm dreading it as I haven't answered any of her messages and I know she will just ask me to my face. I'm not sharing any information about dh's friend as I won't gossip and I won't put my friendship with him under jeopardy. And I'm no longer comfortable with telling her things about my son. Soz for the longggg rant. X

Gosh, that sounds like a bloody nightmare. I think you need to taper off a bit, and maybe give the classroom teacher a bit of a heads up about the poor wee girl and the way the Mother appears to be trying to search for non existent behaviours as this isn't good for her.
As for you, a slow tail off. The answer to questions is 'I don't know' or 'We haven't got that far yet'. 'Every person on the spectrum is different'. 'Yes, they present differently'. And finally, Sorry, I'm busy this afternoon. Good luck!

She does sound pretty awful. But don’t dismiss the bullying out of hand. Bullies are usually charm personified to other people aside from victims.

Half of this forum just seems to be people egging on posters to do nasty stuff IRL these days.

@LeahJack I'm not trying to do any nasty? I think this mother needs some kind of help and so does her daughter - her daughter most definitely does.

I think I've probably at the start got too invested in the friendship with the mother even though I could see there were a few alarm bells. But the reason for this was it's my sons first friend! It was a massive deal for him to be invited to the park if I'm honest. To be able to have Sophie for tea is a huge deal when you have an autistic child.

I think I'm going to reply to her messages with 'I don't know' like @Gilead said before the assembly so she might not question me during it.

If there's anything I could possibly do to help them both then I'd gladly do it but I'm just not sure what the right way is to go about it.

I am 100% not sharing anymore information with her and I haven't done for a while. This is all she wants from me anyway so she might start to drift off when she realises this

Oh God aaargh, I posted that on the wrong thread, so sorry.

@LeahJack oh don't worry, easily done!

arghhhhhh, you need to find out who is in charge of safeguarding at school and just explain in a boringly matter of fact way what your experiences are. Often the staff will be aware anyway as it's highly likely the parent concerned is pressuring staff for additional measures. They will add your concerns to theirs and make an assessment.

@Gilead yes I'm pretty sure school will be aware of it. My friend is really not impressed that school aren't giving her daughter more support. I'll have a word with the school senco as I'm very close to her through my son.

It's just a difficult situation because you can see looking at Sophie that she isn't happy. I'm so glad her and my son have struck up a friendship and I don't want that to end.

I know I need to do something as it's on my mind and I'll feel really bad if I don't. At the end of the day....the mother needs help as well.

I don't blame you for wanting to kick this friendship into touch. If shes talking about other kids. There's a good chance she's talking about yours and you.
However I don't know why you got a dig in about her being single. Not everyone wants a partner draped on their arms. May be I'm missing a very important point but I really don't know what that has to do with anything.

Awwlookatmybabyspider Yes, I noticed that! But I'm hoping it was just badly written and what OP meant was "also, she's single, and this circumstance has thrown up another bit of odd behaviour because she's pumping me for info about someone she dated once three years ago who's a colleague of DH's".

Can you maybe just say to her when she is on a bitching rant something like “I have decided I really don’t want to engage in gossip anymore - I feel like I’ve been doing it too much and it’s making me feel quite negative.” In an attempt to shut down at least that side of things. Likewise if she keeps bringing up your son couldn’t you say you don’t want to keep answering questions about it, you’ve answered everything she needs to know and you are happy to accompany her and her daughter to an assessment or whatever but she’s just really prying?

She sounds like a nightmare but it’s complicated by your son’s friendship and the fact that these types of people do not do well if you “dump” them. And by do well I mean she will behave like a stalker.

Autism in girls is under diagnosed and can present very differently to autism in boys indeed there is a call for testing for girls to be modified to take into account these differences, girls are very much better at masking the signs. Maybe autism is the cause of Sophie's unhappiness at school, it certainly sounds like she struggles socially in the setting. It would also lead to her mum feeling very isolated and alone.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider oh I know that! And it's not a dig by an means! I was a single parent for 4 years and totally happy with it before I met my husband.

I've mentioned it because she only seems to have a problem with families where mum and dad are together and have the family life. She will mention it all the time 'can't stand Angela with her new Range Rover and rich husband....Ellie is going to turn out exactly like her mother' - there's nothing wrong with Ellie's mother. Nice lady, nice kids, nice husband from what I can see.
And again, she says this right in front of Sophie.

Is your son there whilst the bitching is going on? Because you could easily just say “I’m
sorry but I don’t want DS listening to this as it might give him negative feelings towards so and so”. This is perfectly reasonable and if you said it every time she would stop.

Oh fair point then

@Haberpop yes that's exactly what I thought. For girls it's so different which is why I've been happy to provide her with all the info and advice that I can. Especially at the start of the friendship. I felt for her as I know it's so frustrating when you know your child needs help but you can't get it.

However when I've asked her mum about what sort of autistic traits she has, she's struggled to answer me. She didn't know. It's more about the kids at school that are nasty to her. These friends are causing Sophie to have anxiety. So I think maybe her mum is maybe slightly confused as to what autism actually is? Though obviously I'm aware I could be totally wrong on this. She's been to her gp, tried to get an appointment for cahms though they were unable to help her at all. She's had a visit at school who have also dismissed everything as what Sophie and her mum said didn't match up - this is what Sophie told me. She said 'a lady had a chat with me at school and asked me if I'm happy and everyone is nice to me and I told her they are'. This was back at easter time.

OP - you sound like such a lovely lady who has unfortunately Sleep walked into the web of a person who has Munchausens by proxy ...I'm not joking about that!
Try and take a deep breath and step back a little from this. Re: assembly today, just cold shoulder and say a bit snowed as a busy weekend ahead.....create some thinking space over the weekend. Say you've been sicky or something.

Re: the weird mum. It's munchausens by proxy....this is no good for you, your son and her DD. But you're not God and there's only so much you can do. I would personally arrange a quiet and utterly confidential meeting with the school Head, there could be some child protection issues for the DD. Then you have to leave it with them.

For the forth coming summer break. Be busy. Sort out some other activities and play dates that are going to be really beneficial for you and your son. Say to the mum, love to but we are busy......
Expect and brace yourself that sadly in time, you and your DS will probably be part of her bad mouthing but tbh it sounds like she'll have a very small audience.

Be strong OP 💐

@crispysausagerolls I haven't let her around my son since that time at the restaurant - about a year ago. Obviously there's been times at school where we've seen each other etc. But I've avoided doing anything socially with her and my son for this reason. I've also not wanted to stop the friendship between ds and Sophie which is why Sophie still comes for tea every now and then

The mum seems to have an envy of the attention and resources your DS receives for his autism. We have 5 ASD people in our family and I have never known any parent willing their child a diagnoses .....quite the opposite, but that could just be us.
She can just get an initial screen for ASD privately which involves a 360o feedback from a school teacher, the child themselves and mum plus psychologist observations if she's in doubt. Depending on the outcome of that a reco to proceed to a full assessment is suggested or not. All tests are quite subjective though and can be border line. But it could put the matter to bed if she keeps going on and on.

@Tinkobell ahhh thank you very much!

Tbh I thought there was something not quite right at the first play date but I put it to the back of my mind as ds finally had a friend to play with! It's something that meant so much to me and was such a big deal. And I'll actually always thank her for that because even though there's something not quite right, she made this friendship happen so I'll be eternally grateful to her for it.

I am aware that she could start being horrible about me and ds behind our backs, I'll just have to hope that people rise above it and don't listen. Fortunately she's hardly ever in the playground as she works full time. It's Sophie's great grandma that takes her to school and collects her every day as she lives a few houses away from the school.

In the summer break I'll actually be giving birth - I'm 8 months pregnant lol so I've got that one well covered and it won't be an excuse either lol.

But I agree with me having a quiet word with someone in school before we break up for summer - mostly because last year, our year group was split up but next they are all back together again and I know Sophie's mum has some massive issues with some of the children who will be with ours again next year. I do think senco is best as I feel most comfortable talking with her.

Thanks for everyone's advice

In fairness, ASD can be incredibly hard for anyone to outwardly see. My DS15 came back as a NO on the screen, but we know he struggles desperately to understand nuance, jokes ....that sort of level of more sophisticated language. We had another family member diagnosed at age 40 - outwardly she is bubbly, is a demonstrative and caring mum, appears empathetic.....but I suppose sometimes maybe only the person themselves can identify what's going on within.

Yes, step back but i think having a meeting with school is a step too far.
MbP is a serious MH label which can only be assessed by a MH prof.
Let the professionals deal with it.

(sorry posted too soon)

because it could be MbP or it could be a v frustrated parent of a girl with ASD. Only profs can tell (and even they are not foolproof).

I'd back off from the friendship a little but try to keep Sophie coming for tea if you can. Good for your ds and good for her in either scenario.

I absolutely want to keep Sophie coming for tea as they have formed a lovely little friendship. This is why I want to really be careful as I want Sophie and my ds to come first - Sophie especially.

I suppose I find it hard as I know everyone with autism is different. I've done my fair share of research/courses etc. Have lots of friends with autistic children who I've met a long the way - with both male and female children - and they are all different.

But with Sophie, I just can't see anything that could show her with being autistic. Obviously I'm not going to list it all and I know full well I could be wrong. Autism is massive and we are all on the spectrum somewhere at the end of the day.

She's very outgoing and confident, can start a conversation about things, intelligent etc. I just think she isn't quite sure how to be around other girls her age - not boys. She's not into the 'girly things' that most in the class are into. She would rather climb a tree than make daisy chains. The girls in the class are extremely feminine and to be honest, she is the only one that isn't. Which is great really, she isn't afraid to be herself and doesn't try to fit in as she knows that's not for her. But it obviously then becomes a struggle for her to 'fit in' so to speak. However she still gets invited to the girls bday parties and things so that's great - I don't think she's totall isolated from them. There was some pictures of her on fb at a sleepover recently with all the girls and she looked like she was having an absolute ball which was so lovely to see x

we are all on the spectrum somewhere at the end of the day.

No we are not!
Only people with autism are on the autistic spectrum!!!!!!!;