To un friend this person?

[arghhhhhhh]

We've been friends a couple of years - I have a son who is autistic (diagnosed aged 5) and her daughter is in the same class as my son.

Her daughter has always struggled with friendships. She is almost a year older than my son (she's the oldest in the class and he's the youngest) and has made friends - to a certain extent as my son doesn't understand friendships - with my son.

One day I received a message from her asking if we could all go to the park seen as my ds and her dd had become friends. I agreed and thought it was a lovely gesture - I'd never actually spoken to her before. Seen her around school etc but we had never met.

So this was about 1.5 years ago.

Now she does nothing but pester me. And I have some concerns but I honestly don't know what to do. I'll bullet point it as it's easier to explain:

Also please note these are not the actual children's names, I've just changed them myself.

• from our first meeting she explained that she was convinced her daughter was also autistic. She asked me lots and lots of questions about my son and how to go about getting her daughter looked at. I was happy to help at this time as I had no reason to think any different although I couldn't actually identify any autistic traits with her daughter during the play date. But I am 100% aware that that means nothing.

• our meetings carried on every month or so and this is when I became uncomfortable with the friendship. We were sat in a restaurant and the mother was talking about the other children in the class at school In front of both the children. She was saying things like 'every child in your class bullies you don't they Sophie?' 'Chloe is a horrible girl isn't she? She's always nasty to you' 'Ben is constantly picking on you, his mum and dad are horrible people etc'

She also said 'oh Emily is leaving at the end of the summer, you are so happy about that aren't you Sophie? She can go and pick on other people at her new school and leave you alone'.

I could see poor Sophie was so uncomfortable. I asked Sophie directly in front of her mum if these kids were horrible to her and she just looked at me and said 'well sometimes'. I left it at that as I didn't want to pressure her. She also said 'Sophie do you know that Holly's dad has just had an affair?' I was literally open mouthed. I don't even know Holly's parents so have no idea if it was true or not. I backed off with meetings after this for a while.

• the way she speaks about the other children in the class is awful. Chloe for example is a lovely lovely girl. She would never ever bully anyone. Same as Emily who left. All well brought up children, happy, friendly, polite etc. Yes there are some not so nice kids I suppose but you get that in every class. The majority are great with my son and very understanding with his needs. I can't stand how she's saying these things in front of her daughter. She really is one mixed up little girl.

• Sophie started to come to our house after school on her own every now and then. I always ask her how she's enjoying school etc and she always says she enjoys it. I really cannot see any autistic traits in this child.

• her mum constantly messages me about how she is referring Sophie for a mental health assessment but is not getting anywhere with it. She asks me what's going on with my son and seems to be angry that my son is getting help and her daughter isn't! My son is autistic, I have a terrible time with him on a daily basis. He needs help.

• the mother also spends her time constantly bitching about other parents at school. I've done a couple of things socially with her (never on my own but with another mutual friend who has no connection with the school). She has even asked me why I'm friends with one particular parent (who happens to be Chloe's mum!) and has hinted that I don't be friends with her! I see this friend socially all the time as my husband works with her husband and we regularly do bbqs etc. The friend in question cannot stand this! She hates the whole family even though they are all lovely.

• she is also single, she tried dating one of my husbands friends. It didn't work out. Her version was that he wasn't right for her but a nice guy etc. His version was similar but he also admitted he couldn't get to grips with her personality and she was very 'out there' etc and I knew exactly what he meant. However she has not been able to let him go even though they just went on a couple of dates about a year ago. She sent me 3 messages yesterday asking me about some personal things to do with him. Which I do know the answers to but it's not my place to share his personal business. So I just ignored her.

• Final straw is this morning I've had more messages saying that Sophie has been off school all week due to anxiety (to my knowledge she hasn't as my son said he was playing with her yesterday but he can get easily confused so that may be wrong) and then started asking more personal questions about my son! It's like she just wants to Sophie to be just like my son. I don't get it!

Sorry this is so long, don't want to drip feed but I felt I can't explain it properly without getting it all out.
I'm worried for her daughter. I can see she's not a happy little girl but I really don't think it's anything to do with school. I think it's the mother - i honestly think maybe her mum has some sort of additional needs that's been possibly undiagnosed. The only other thing I can think of is that it is a jealously thing? I mean she's single yet the majority if the parents in school are married with nice houses and flash cars - it's an expensive village where the school is situated. And no I am not one of these, I don't have a flash car or a posh house....though I am married. It seems to be she has a major problem with the parents and kids that do lead this lifestyle though.

Should I go to the school about it?

It's so hard to be friends with with this lady. I'm finding I'm having to shut her out as all she wants to do is gain information from me which I'm not comfortable sharing. I don't think she has many friends. She is very loud and out there, very awkward to talk too....I'm sure there is something there that's not quite right but I'm also 100% her daughter is suffering for it. Also Sophie is the only friend my son has, I don't want him to lose that and I know Sophie has no one but my son either.

We have a school assembly this afternoon and now I'm dreading it as I haven't answered any of her messages and I know she will just ask me to my face. I'm not sharing any information about dh's friend as I won't gossip and I won't put my friendship with him under jeopardy. And I'm no longer comfortable with telling her things about my son. Soz for the longggg rant. X

It's not a line.
One end isn't normal and the other rainman.

We are not all on the pectrum, it's a triad of impairments.

You sound understandly attached to Sophie OP. But given the mums ways, I'd really try for your DS's sake to broaden his friendship group, that could be a very good thing anyway given imminent baby arrival. My BF's DD is high functioning ASD and in mainstream High school. She is more into male than girly friendships. Only a good psychologist can diagnose but even then it can be subjective. I know from our assessment, the psychologist explained a couple of "markers". One was blinking / small pause on meeting and greeting which differentiated that behaviour as being conditioned rather than natural or spontaneous. The other was having a balanced view of risk: risk being either perceived as excessively cautious or blasé / gung-ho.

@CaptainKirkssparetupee That's fine - no need to jump down my throat. I've done so many courses on autism over the years and they way I've learnt to understand it is that it is a massive spectrum that everyone is on. Looking at a line (though you say it isn't but I've been taught differently) the majority (and I mean the majority) are at the starting line - meaning that it doesn't go or lead anywhere or affect them in anyway. They lead a perfectly normal life. These people are not autistic - not everyone is autistic. That is not what I was saying. Everyone is placed on the spectrum as a way to show autism and what it is. For example I know I have some autistic traits. I don't cope well with change, I need everything to be as it is. My eye contact also isn't the best. But I am NOT autistic. I'd be at the starting point along with most people. Everyone has traits of autism somewhere but it doesn't mean they are autistic.

Then there are others that are higher up. Even my own child when assessed and diagnosed was thought to be in the middle of the spectrum due to the amount of traits he has. Obviously autism is huge and you will never meet an autistic person that's the same. There's a saying 'if you've met one person with autism then you've met one person with autism' - that's fact. I know many autistic children and not one of them is like my son. It is a triad of impairments - you are absolutely correct.

You may not understand that way and that's fine. Each to their own. This is just how it has been perceived to me.

This woman sounds like a nightmare.

I would echo what a PP said about how you don't necessarily know whether these other children are bullying Sophie or not. Chloe and Emily might be delightful when other adults are around but horrible to Sophie as soon as other people's backs are turned.

Is there any way you can distance yourself from this mum without distancing yourself and your son from Sophie? I think it would be very sad for your son and Sophie if they couldn't be friends anymore because you don't like Sophie's mother (with good reason, from the sounds of things), and if there is any truth to the claims that Sophie is being bullied by the other children then being kept at arm's length from your son could lead to her being even more unhappy and isolated.

Yeah I have tried with other friends. Unfortunately as far as school goes it's just so hard for him. Friendships is one of the main concerns school have with him though they are putting new things into place for him from September.

He has a little Saturday group he goes too and swimming etc but these are all disabled groups so a lot of the children are the same when it comes to friendships. Ds isnt that bothered about friends and doesn't know how to make or keep friends. Sophie has the patience of a saint though! She enjoys showing him how to play things etc.

Ds is going on respite through the summer holidays so he will be able to hopefully make some new friends through this.

As far as Sophie goes, I'm just saying things how I've seen it over the last 1.5-2 years. It's all sort of been a gradual built up process where things haven't necessarily added up. Last nights messaging regarding dh's friend was out of order from my friend as far as I'm concerned so I didn't reply. Then to receive more messages from her this morning fishing for info about my son (forgot to say she will more than likely know that my son has had a lot of visits lately in school as Sophie will of seen him being taken out of lesson. The class have also had someone come into them to speak about autism) has just made me feel very unsettled if I'm honest. The best thing I can do is just keep my distance from her over summer - I will be anyway due to having a baby - and see what next year brings.

Thanks everyone x

I only got to paragraph 7

Get rid

@LoveInTokyo you've got it in one there. I don't 100% know these kids are being nice to Sophie - of course I don't. I think it's very unlikely but obviously I could be way off. I'd probably say I'd be inclined to believe it if Sophie's mum wasn't so awful about these children's families in the way she was. It's pretty much that she's filling Sophie's head with the concept that these children are not nice. She's obviously going to be very confused.

So yes like I say, over summer we will keep our distance as we have a lot going on anyway. I'll be doing no more social things with Sophie's mum. I haven't for a while now anyway if I'm honest, it's just the messaging me that's become a problem. But I'll literally keep things as civil as I can so contact is only around when Sophie is coming for tea etc. Any gossip type messages I just ignore and will continue to do so. Hopefully keeping the conversations limited might make her get the hint.

You may not understand that way and that's fine. Each to their own. This is just how it has been perceived to me.

It's not about how it's perceived it's not a line and not everyone is in it. Your training is wrong.

This woman sounds very much like one of my old neighbours! She talks about everybody and is a total busy body. I had never actually met or spoken to her and she lived at the other end of the street but she happily told everybody (and eventually said to my face) that I am a snob because I have a very nice car and never speak to anyone! I don’t have time as I work full time (which funds a nice car) and therefore what little free time I have I don’t want spent being involved in village drama! I like a quiet life!

I would be concerned for the little girl and maybe speak to the school but I’m not sure how you could word it as just saying the mums unpleasant/negative doesn’t come across well

@CaptainKirkssparetupee agree to disagree then. It makes perfect sense to me and the others who were on the course. As it does to my sons autism specialist support officer and the paed....but anyway. This isn't a post about who knows most about autism! Therefore if you've got nothing helpful to say about the situation with this little girl then please do not comment any further - your comments are invalid.

I had a friend like this. It became awful, she asked so many questions about mine and another friends child, who both have disabilities and SEN, and by the time the month was out she was demanding referrals for the same things, some of which I was appalled at as it was almost impossible! She wouldn't take peoples answers for facts even though she had multiple assessments.
I swore she had Munchausens by proxy .

She will continue to leech out of you, she'll be practically describing your son to her doctors rather than her own child.

@Tara336 yes she won't ever talk about herself! I have never really got to know her as a person and that's part of the problem. She just needs to know everyone else's business and talk about everyone else's business. I know she doesn't know that many parents at school due to not being there often but she seems to know everyone else's business. And is happy to tell anyone who will listen.

Yes re the car thing, all these families she has a problem with are hard working families. Yes some have lovely houses and cars and go on nice holidays but they all work bloody hard for it. They aren't snobs and don't see themselves as any better than anyone else. Good for you having a nice car and not being a snob! Lol. Keeping yourself to yourself is also the best way by far!

Thank you for your advice, off to the assembly now so will see what happens

The way you described the mum made me wonder if she is on the spectrum herself tbh. She sounds a bit different, socially.

FYI, my brother was profoundly autistic and I strongly suspect that my mum, sister and I are all a fair degree away from neurotypical too. We all struggle socially, but mostly have learned to fake it. Sophie' s mum sounds like she's not aware her behaviour is unusual, which is troubling.

CaptainKirkssparetupee has a point though. I wont belittle what you feel you learnt at your courses but saying such can be quite insulting to those living with ASD - saying everyones on the spectrum can be seen as trivialising their difficulties. I would agree. No autism course I have ever been on describes autism as such, either. I appreciate that such might give you peace, however, and take no such insult.

Around 7000,00 people in the UK live on the autism spectrum - not the whole of the UK. The "autistic traits" you claim to have are not as such - they are human habits.

@TheGreatestHo exactly what I'm afraid of. I fear she might be trying to make her own child like mine. I love my son more than anything in the world but I'd do anything to take everything he goes through away from him. Completely baffled as to why any parent would want their child to be autistic or have any other condition. I spend my life trying to make things better for him.

@arghhhhhhh

I'm never quite sure what it is in these cases - whether it be for attention or disability benefits :/

I dont want either, I'd rather we didnt have these struggles

@LaContessaDiPlump I also think that too. 100%. That's why I'm trying to be very careful around her. She could possibly be putting her own struggles into her child. Maybe thinking of her time at school and assuming Sophie will have the same issues possibly

Funnily enough my own mother (who struggled herself, now I think of it - she never would have admitted it) was OBSESSED with my popularity or lack thereof at school and got very very angry/hurt/defensive when it became apparent that I was just this quiet kid who struggled herself. I still find myself compelled to make conversation with people, even now, because of my mother hammering it into my head that YOU MUST MAKE FRIENDS.

Sophie' s mum sounds similar in that aspect, I must say.

With someone like her I’m sure it would be a waste of time trying to get her to understand your points or concerns. Best to back off and just tell her you have a lot going on in your life at present and will eventually get around to her in the near future. She seems a lost cause. It’s sweet you are concerned about her girl but not much you can do there either. You know she will be talking behind your back soon too, it’s a shame but some people can only find fault in others, most probably to make themselves feel normal and are completely unaware of how irrational they are. Does sound like some kind of personality disorder.

@arghhhhhhh I did establish eventually that this neighbour didn’t have any lasting friendships, anyone standing out looking in could see why that might be but she hadn’t zero self awareness! I don’t know if the being mean came about before or after she realised people give her a wide berth. I do feel sorry for people like this but I think they are deeply unhappy/possibly ill. She’s transferring all her negativity to that poor little girl. Hope assembly goes ok maybe you could go in disguise to avoid her

I have an autistic daughter and they can def mask incredibly well. I also have friends who ask questions and then magically say their children have the same difficulties (sometimes word for word!). It’s very hard in these situations to know if it’s genuine and the questions help them spot their children’s quirks or if it’s them using other people’s expeiences to make out their children’s difficulties are worse than they are. What I will say is professionals do seem to be able to spot the difference between the 2 Which may be why this friend is being dismissed. Personally I think it would be very hard for a child to mask in all situations and the assessments seem very good at drawing out any autistic behaviours. I’m not sure I would take it to the school but I think distancing yourself is wise. Also avoid giving her too much ammo by giving her details of your sons difficulties as it sounds like she will claim her daughter has the same even if she doesn’t.

Have to say my first thoughts agreed with Tinks. Just was not how to spell it!

Therefore if you've got nothing helpful to say about the situation with this little girl then please do not comment any further - your comments are invalid.

If you can't even understand autism and dismiss comments which try to correct your misunderstanding as invalid you will not get very far.

Covering yourself in ignorance is unlikely to help you.

At the risk of derailing the thread... I've recently been on several training courses which have clearly stated they now say the spectrum includes everyone. I do realise that previously people were saying the spectrum was just for those with ASD. This change is possibly a controversial academic opinion. Just making the point, as pp may have heard similar.
My training was by recognized therapists.

Not everyone can be on the autistic spectrum.