AUBU not feeding dd(14) what she wants?

[Lovemusic33]

Dd has major issues with food, she has AS and sensory issues, her diet has always been pretty awful and she lives mainly on Pizza (cheese only), chips and fish cakes. She gets free school meals but because she’s only given a small amount towards a meal she often doesn’t eat as there’s not always pizza in the canteen. I have offered to send her in with extra food but she moans that we don’t have anything in that she likes.

I am trying to provide a healthy meal when she gets home but against n she often doesn’t like the look of what I offer, I try and make healthier varieties of pizza a couple times a week but I’m not serving pizza every night, I have tried to offer jacket potatoes, new potatoes or mash as an alternative to chips but she turns her nose up, she won’t touch meat or veg. Last night she complained at what I gave her which was pizza made from whole meal pita bread and roasted new potatoes, she ate the pizza but refused the potatoes and then said I was starving her. This morning I told her to find something to take to school as a snack, I have plenty of food in but apparently nothing she likes.

AIBU standing my ground and not cooking her pizza every night? I really want her to start trying a few different things but it’s so hard. She has a condition that effects her bones and gaining weight will make that worse (so living in pizza is not ideal), she’s also so pale due to not eating veg or any meat.

She has accused me of spending too much money on other things and not providing her with food, this is not true, there plenty of food in the house, I go shopping twice a week and spend way more than I should. The money she gets for her school meal is enough to buy a meal (the healthy option) but she won’t eat this.

If anything dd is overweight (not by a lot).
She would eat a whole pop of Pringles or a whole pizza.

I buy a big bottle of tropical juice once a week which has some added vitamins.

Just wish she would attempt vegetables but she won’t even try them.
We have strawberries growing in the garden but if I ask her if she wants any she will refuse even though I know she likes them.

OP, I have a child on the AS (though now an adult). As a teeny he would eat very little..At one point only fish fingers and was having them several times a day. Towards 11 or 12 he got better and would eat what I cooked, somewhat grudgingly, but he would eat it..come 14 he regressed completely and we were back almost at childhood levels where it was fish or fish basically. As an adult he is slightly better but not much. The stress and strain and just general bad feeling of getting him to eat other items became just not worth the phyrric victory of a slightly expanded diet. I left him to eat what he wanted because quite frankly the toll it exacted on the household just wasn't worth it. He is a healthy, strapping man despite it all. I would ask yourself if the battle is really worth it in the end.

water I have attempted to battle with her in the past, I am not really battling with her now, she’s getting pizza most nights, I. Just trying things like swapping her chips for new potatoes, I don’t say ‘come on dd, eat this’ I don’t say a word, I put the plate in front of her and if she doesn’t try the potatoes I just take them away (or her sister eats them), she then often has some ice cream for pudding, I don’t say ‘your not have no anything else but I’m not cooking pizza, there’s other food she could eat). There’s no battle, I gave that up years ago.

I don't know how much it's a battle of wills and how much her genuine food issues.

Have you tried therapy/help other than dieticians and occupational therapists?

I haven’t Darling getting any kind of therapy on the NHS here is almost impossible (been try’s nag for years) but I am looking at alternive therapy.

Youre still trying to force her though.
Its like being raised in a family of horses and having them say "theres loads of grass, theres hay, she has lots of food!" - if she cant eat it because of her AS and sensory issues then she CAN'T. I know bananas are healthy and great for you but the texture makes me spit it out immediately no matter how much I try - I CANT eat them.

At 14 though, she is old enough to understand what a balanced diet is. She's old enough to have you lay out that people NEED this percentage of protein, this percentage of fat, this percentage of carbs, all these vitamins and minerals, and this range of calories. You can then lay out her proposed menu of "all cheese pizza and chips and crisps all the time" and show her how its falling short and is far too fat heavy. Then she can suggest what she can do within what she CAN do to get it more to where it needs to be.

By presenting it as "your sister eats properly, why can't you" then you're making it a fight, and a fight that you can't win at that. Make it about giving her responsibility to keep herself correctly supplied with what she needs and let HER tell YOU how she plans to do it.

You should check out - www.the-heath.co.uk/practitioners/felix-economakis.php

Maybe what I meant more lovemusic, is that it's not ideal, believe me, I understand that (DS is 27, I've been through it all with him and it continues), but that your girl will be ok, so try not to worry. Letting go a bit really helps, and it doesn't mean that you care less in any way.

I still puree all sauces for ds1 like he's a toddler - he's 15. I hide vegetables in sauces and serve with pasta and cheese. He gags on lumpy foods. he has asd, dyspraxia, anxiety disorder, and adhd, all nhs diagnosed and some medicated (which does affect his appetite)

Until he was 12 his vegetation consumption was just green beans and potatoes. Meat was chicken legs only, or bacon. Until he was 4 it was cheese and white bread with NOTHING ELSE SOLID.

Now he eats green beans, peas, savoy cabbage, asparagus, cauliflower and broccoli (all overcooked). Onion, tomato, and mushroom and pepper are probably going to be an always pureed food. H will now eat any meat, and all fish except tuna. He will eat mussels and prawns

I restrict his favourites (cheese) until he bites, chews and swallows a new thing. I only give a new thing rarely, about once every 3 months. I still give a toddler appropriate amount of praise for tasting, for every step of tasting (hold, sniff, lick, hold in mouth, bite and spit, bite and chew and spit, chew and swallow). He gets pissy every time it's time to try a new thing and he complains that I'm bullying and starving him, but if I had left him how he was, he would eat cheese and white bread and nothing else. He is allowed to choose to leave the meal as he is within a healthy weight range. He's not allowed to eat crap or bully me about it.

At the same time, even persisting as I have, I have come up against "hard no" foods, and if he detects them in the meal, the meal is ruined for him. I don't do this to him. If he can detect it after I have done my damnedest to hide it or make it acceptable to him, I don't serve it to him any more.

If your daughter is well weighted, I wouldn't have any qualms about allowing her to be hungry rather than allowing her to eat poor food. If she will sometimes eat berries but would rather have crisps, don't buy crisps.

Sometimes if you can link a food into another obsession the child has I find they will eat it so peas we add in number of peas and brocolli we say they look like trees. She might be too old though. Also have you tried raw, I've known some kids with ASD eat veg raw even when you normally wouldn't. Easiest veg to try would be any she has ever eaten. I would start off very small like one pea per extra pizza slice, which sounds silly, but once they've eaten one chances of them eating more increase and as its such a small amount she may go for it and swap the veg if hates peas to say carrot next. Though if she's eating some fruit / drinking fruit juice I wouldn't be too concerned and if she refuses I would give the pizza anyway. My DS will do the one pea thing and he thinks its amusing as its so small then he often starts eating more.

To a large extent, I think the fact that she is/has ASD is a red herring.

It always happens on threads about restricted eating - people say it's unacceptable unless the individual is autistic/has autism.

But nobody is fussy for fun. Fussy children have reasons for their restricted eating - texture, taste, appearance, associations, phobia, calories etc.

I think people think it is a different thing for children with autism because
a) restricted eating is much more common in those children than in NT children
and
b) it's much more difficult to deal with it and help them expand their palate because of other aspects of autism - not because their food issues are any different to anybody else's.

I was an incredibly restrictive eater as a child. At age 5 I had a tube at one point because I wouldn't eat anything. Until I was 11 I would eat: fishfingers, chips, carrots, apples, ready salted crisps and vanilla ice cream. Nothing else. I'm not autistic but nothing my parents did could persuade me that anything else could be okay to eat. I 'knew' that the taste or texture would be awful before I even tried it and gagged on anything they did get down me. Luckily, I suppose it was fairly balanced so there was no real need to make me eat other things. Your daughter isn't so lucky. Pizza is fine every day but not if she's only prepared to put cheese on it.

I don't know what you do though or how/if it can improve. I wouldn't force her to eat anything else. It doesn't work on extreme restrictive eaters (I sat up all night over food I didn't want to eat once because my dad said I couldn't leave the table till I'd eaten it and tried to wait me out!)

I started eating more foods around the time I went to secondary school but still not many then I became anorexic when I was 15 so calorie rules became more frightening that tastes and textures and what I would/will eat was/is now governed by that instead.

I think fussiness, more severe food issues and eating disorders are all part of the same spectrum. Many people on the autistic spectrum are affected by the food issue spectrum. But so are plenty of other people and it doesn't help to villify one group but say the other group should never be expected to get over it. It helps nobody. Instead, everybody, NT or ASD, needs understanding and professional help.

Also I had severe food issues growing up too ... I have no additional needs .

Totally agree with Manic above 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

I think music feels that the fussiness is exacerbated by her ASD rather than caused by it so a stricter approach is needed to keep her DD healthy.

Could you insist on better (acceptable) choices 2 days/ week, so yogurt instead of crisps for example?

Regarding the peppa pig vitamins, just compare what's in them with what a girl her age needs and approximate how many she needs to take a day.

I would never force her to eat anything, I don’t make her clear her plate before leaving the table, I don’t tell her to eat what’s on her plate, if she doesn’t want it she leaves it.

Thanks Colditz, you seem to get it. She’s not underweight, she chooses crisps and chocolate over fruit just like most kids would, I have stopped buying chocolate and buy less crisps, she’s moaning because she misses eating them but if she’s hungry she can eat a banana or some berries, she chooses not too.

I can’t afford to feed her 3 boxes of peppa pig chewey vitimans a day, I think they come in a pack of 10 servings (one a day) so I’m guessing she would need around 3 servings a day.

If she's happy to eat crisps and chocolate can you put a lock on a crisps and chocolate cupboard and agree to give her one of each after she's eaten a yogurt and a piece of fruit?
It would be a compromise and stop your other DD from over filling on junk as well if they don't have instant access to them?

Could you put a liquid vitamin in her juice, fresh juice is so sweet she may not be able to tell it's there and then just one peppa pig chewy?

Could you put protein powered in her smoothie/yogurt/pizza base?

I can’t afford to feed her 3 boxes of peppa pig chewey vitimans a day, I think they come in a pack of 10 servings (one a day) so I’m guessing she would need around 3 servings a day.

My DD takes vitamin supplements, not Peppa Pig ones but I get her chewy ones. She only needs them once a day.

And they're the nutrients she needs. Surely you can swap out some of the stuff you're buying her (but she's not eating) for the vitamins?

Do you get DLA for your girls OP? I only ask because of what you said about not being able to afford lots of the specific vitamins. If not it could be worth applying.

To be fair, I don't eat bananas, they give me indigestion/a strange feeling in my throat.

Fresh apples give me a tight throat, so I normally eat them with a hot tea.

Peppers sometimes give me horrible indigestion, as do melons and mushrooms.

It's all good saying yes she can eat xyz but it might be she's intolerant/allergic, but only mildly?

Once you've had an unpleasant sensation when eating something I really do think it sits in your subconscious and you easily develop an aversion.

Tbh at 14 fussy eaters eat what they want but cook their own dinners

So just give her one peppa pig vitamin a day so they last longer, it's better than nothing?

The swapping home made fishcakes from frozen ones stuff won't work for a child with sensory issues and asd. They aren't the same so they're not safe.

Re the crisps/choc v other food, I don't think yabu there.

Had a quick look at my vitamin's and my kid's ones (Bassett's rather than Peppa ones, but same age group) and she would need two for some vitamins, but one is enough for most so that's pretty good.

Other than hissy fits what would happen if you didn't buy crisps etc?

Lovemusic33, I don't just get it, I live it

cheshire today I bought a 6 pack of crisps (we are going on a picnic tomorrow), she has already eaten 2 packets. There hasn’t been any crisps for a few days which is why she has been moaning (there are some crisps but not cheese and onion). He sister hasn’t moaned at all about the lack of chocolate and crisps, she will find fruit or some cold chicken to eat.

Today dd1 has eaten

Chips at school, apparently there was nothing else to eat in the canteen that she likes.

2 bags of crisps.
A cheese wrap.
A small cake bar.

She’s now moaning she’s hungry but won’t eat anything on offer other than more crisps. There are bananas, blueberries and raspberries which I know she would eat (she likes them) but she wants to eat crisps and more crisps.