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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Pre-school won't help to use toilet

90 replies

Mummymummymummmeeeee · 27/06/2018 23:27

DS1 will be 3 at the end of July and will be starting pre-school nursery in September. I've just been to a parents welcome evening today and was a bit shocked that they will expect him to be able to use the toilet independently when he starts there, including wiping his own bottom properly without supervision and washing his hands etc. AIBU to think that this is a bit much to expect from a just turned 3 year old? I was expecting him to need to be able to do this for school by age 4 but expected him to have supervision/help at pre-school. I'll start giving him the chance to learn from tomorrow now that I know but honestly don't think he's mentally or physically ready to make a good job of it. Also a bit worried that his usual reaction at the moment if he has messy hands (eg. food or mud at the park etc) is to try to wipe his hands on my clothes! :/

OP posts:

tulippa · 27/06/2018 23:32

Yes this is pretty normal. They will want to encourage independence and readiness for reception. I remember being worried when DS started school nursery 2 weeks after turning 3 and only just toilet trained but he was fine. I just don't think he went for a poo the whole time he was there!

teaandtwigs · 27/06/2018 23:37

Our preschool nursery will assist as required - some children will still be in nappies when they start. Obviously they encourage independence but I can't imagine there being that many 3 year olds who can wipe their own bums properly?

littleducks · 27/06/2018 23:42

I think it's pretty common. They won't be supervising tyr children everyone the go to the toilet like when toilet training younger children but will probably still call out did you wash your hands etc as required.

Definitely start practicing at home, with repetition it will click fast most likely and he may then start to poo at home in a regular slot in the morning /evening

Walkingdeadfangirl · 27/06/2018 23:45

why dont you teach your dc to wipe their own bottom. Why do you want someone else to do it? Is Sen involved?

Fruitcorner123 · 27/06/2018 23:46

I don't think it's common. Our pre school definitely helped with toileting. Some children his age will only just be potty trained.

However it may be best to spend summer getting your son wiping himself anyway as even if you queried it and they agreed to help your DS he will see his peers going themselves and might end up doing it himself anyway.

Stinkbomb · 27/06/2018 23:59

They would normally help - 3 is a quite normal age to not be ready for the toilet - my DD way nearly 3.5 and because we waited until she was ready it actually happened really quickly and she was also old enough to be able to wipe her own bum & wash her hands without any hassle.
The ratios might be less in a Pre-school than a nursery, but they are generally really good at helping the kids - plus them watching other children using the toilet will help too.
Also, if you're in the UK, I thought preschool/nurseries aren't allowed to insist children are 'potty trained ' now.

SoyDora · 28/06/2018 00:02

Mine started in a pre school setting the day after she turned 2, she had been toilet trained for about 4 months. She was helped with wiping etc for the first month or so then encouraged to do it herself, and she managed perfectly fine.
Encourage him to wipe himself at home then check he’s done a decent job afterwards!

SoyDora · 28/06/2018 00:03

I meant to say she just takes herself to the toilet at pre school so it would be difficult to monitor anyway I guess. Better they know how to do it themselves.

letsallhaveanap · 28/06/2018 00:05

My son is 3 and not yet potty trained.... hes due to start pre school in sept and as far as im aware they do help children still in nappies... it had the question on his starter booklet 'do I need help with using the toilet?' so I imagine that means they will help him if needed...
I hope so.. we did start to potty train but I am just about to have another baby so we have put it on the back burner as I doubt with the unsettling that a new sibling brings AND starting school that he will be able to also manage toilet training....
He should pick it up fairly fast when he gets there because we have been through the basics with him and he does understand what to do hes just anxious....

I dont know many boys who are completely potty trained at just turned 3... I would have thought it was pretty normal not to be?

HildaZelda · 28/06/2018 00:05

Where I live none of the pre schools will take a child unless they're 100% completely toilet trained and confident in it. Otherwise, forget it. Any one in nappies definitely need not apply.

sparkli · 28/06/2018 00:37

I truly do not understand the problem here. I keep reading about DC not toilet trained at 3 or 4. When my DC started nursery aged 3 they had to be completely toilet trained or they wouldn't be accepted.

I have 6DC (youngest is 11) and, despite this rule, the nursery was full every time with completely toilet trained DC. When did it become so difficult for a 3yo to be dry during the day?

Original poster

Mummymummymummmeeeee · 28/06/2018 01:24

Thanks for the answers so far, seems to be about 50/50. Just to clarify Sparkling he is toilet trained but still needs help. I've been working already on getting him to pull his own trousers up and down but he can't reach round the back and needs help, I've been putting off teaching him to wipe his bum because I don't think he's ready yet and I'm worried it could get messy! I'm going to start trying to teach him but I would have thought it would need checking and for a parent/carer to also wipe after until nearer age 4. If he can't do it well by September I'm thinking of forfeiting the place as I don't want him to end up with an itchy or sore bum if he's not cleaned properly. They said it's to encourage independence, but you could use that as an excuse for all sorts of neglect - try telling social services that your 3 year old has to cook their own dinner because you're encouraging independence!!

OP posts:

SummerofDoom · 28/06/2018 01:41

I don't think getting them to wipe their own bum at 3 is comparable to neglect :-/

If yours need a little support then just speak to preschool and ask if they can for the first couple of months, but there will be plenty of children who can cope. My dd has an end of July birthday and was wiping her own bum at preschool. Ds was also wiping before he started preschool. Just work on it over the summer like all the other children will be doing.

Pikehau · 28/06/2018 01:42

I don’t think yabu - I would expect help and of supervision esp with hand washing.

sparkli not everyone is the same and 3 is still young for some - I have one who trained herself st 2.5 and one who was over 3....

Takethemdown · 28/06/2018 01:47

My DC1 was asked to leave a preschool when they were small because at 2 years old they weren't reliably out of nappies and they wouldn't let us use pull ups and said toddler started having accidents again after starting preschool.

As it is a teen they are on oxybutynin as there are issues which we weren't aware of but still surely its common for two year olds to get engrossed in an activity and not make it.

Original poster

Mummymummymummmeeeee · 28/06/2018 05:39

SummerofDoom I don't think that getting them to wipe their own bum is neglect, but if they know a child can't do it, but leave them to do it unsupervised anyway, and they don't think it's a problem for the child to spend the rest of the day soiled then I think that's neglect.

I tried speaking to them already at the parents evening today. To start with they said the children have to do it all unsupervised, when I said I don't think DS1 will be able to yet they said all children can but that they won't do as good a job as if it's done for them (ie. they don't think the children are capable either but think it's fine to leave them soiled), when I said he might not be ready to start nursery yet then, they said they might be able to supervise but not actually help - when I was relieved about this they then said they didn't have the staff ratio for this - when I was concerned again they said there's a floating member of staff who can help - when I was relieved again they said they'll have no way of knowing if he's gone to the toilet though. It went back and forth contradictory round in circles like that until I got quite wound up with them, as they seemed to just be making excuses and have no intention of keeping the children clean.

Thinking more about it I think it's probably actually unlikely that DS1 will do a poo at nursery as he prefers to do it at home, but thinking about all the other children not washing their hands also puts me off with everything he'll probably catch! So still thinking about it at the moment

OP posts:

Copperbonnet · 28/06/2018 05:52

Pre-schools are generally obsessive about hand washing IME so I don’t think you need to worry about that.

RedHelenB · 28/06/2018 06:02

I think it was better when children did need to be toilet trained (2 1/2 for mine) unless SEN. There's some lazy parents about. Wiping the bums of every 3 year old would take up a lot of time.

SilverOnToast · 28/06/2018 06:04

Preschools are rife with viruses, bacterial infections and germs that cause stomach bugs, colds, parasites etc. As teachers we are not “obsessive” about hand washing, but this is obviously an important skill for young ones to master!

SilverOnToast · 28/06/2018 06:07

RedHelenB I totally agree!

Booie09 · 28/06/2018 06:15

Redhelen I think disposable nappies have a lot to answer for, they keep them dry for so long they proberbly don't realise they are wet unlike Terry towel nappies which must of been horrendous to wear....I'm sure the teachers will help if need be.

RedHelenB · 28/06/2018 06:26

Mine used disposables but got put in panto and soon learned . Summer holidays is the ideal time to teach them how to toilet themselves.

hazeyjane · 28/06/2018 06:33

Where I live none of the pre schools will take a child unless they're 100% completely toilet trained and confident in it. Otherwise, forget it. Any one in nappies definitely need not apply.

This is illegal.

I am always surprised on threads like these, that it is seen as acceptable to not support a child in one of the prime areas of development at such a young age.

Some children at 3 will be developmentally ready and able in areas of self care (toileting, hand washing, getting dressed etc) others need a little more support - hence why it is in the EYFS. We don't take other areas of development and say, children that haven't achieved that particular area can't come to preschool....its bizarre.

For some children it is just that it takes them a little longer, and they may need to ask an adult for help (another important skill), for others it may be that there are medical issues (a LOT of children have constipation at this age) and for some it may become apparent there are additional needs

It should be perfectly possible to support a child and help them learn how to wipe their bottom etc. I would not send my child to a setting that had a problem with this.

By the way - games where you pass a bean bag through the legs and round your back are good for helping with the dexterity you need to wipe your own bottom. Also setting out the steps you need to take when you finish very simply - it is a tricky process to learn!

RippleEffects · 28/06/2018 06:34

With learning to wipe and you being worried about it getting messy, i started mine off by doing the last wipe.

A breezy you do one wipe to check we've cleaned your bum properly. Once they've mastered the motion you can wipe less until they're doing it all.

SinkGirl · 28/06/2018 06:36

We friend has twins at a similar place and I find it quite ridiculous.

Children develop at very different rates - someone above said their child was fully toilet trained by 20 months, whereas my twins are 21 months and have no awareness at all of needing to go, and no way of letting me know either at this point. There’s 15 months until they’d be starting preschool and based on where they are now I’ll be very surprised if they can do it all themselves by then.

One of them does appear to have SEN, in the process of investigating it now, whereas the other just appears to be delayed in some crucial areas particularly speech and understanding. I haven’t seen any sign that he understands what it means to go for a wee even.

Everything I’ve read says that they shouldn’t be pushed to do these things too early for them as it’s counter productive. So which is it? I appreciate OP says that her DD can use the toilet, but I have no doubt some can’t at this age for a variety of reasons as I know of a couple of sets of twins where one from each set is still not fully toilet trained at 3.5 (but the other is, so lazy parenting is not the cause).

Besides which, surely some less severe SEN aren’t picked up until preschool starts, at least?

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