Pre-school won't help to use toilet

[Mummymummymummmeeeee]

DS1 will be 3 at the end of July and will be starting pre-school nursery in September. I've just been to a parents welcome evening today and was a bit shocked that they will expect him to be able to use the toilet independently when he starts there, including wiping his own bottom properly without supervision and washing his hands etc. AIBU to think that this is a bit much to expect from a just turned 3 year old? I was expecting him to need to be able to do this for school by age 4 but expected him to have supervision/help at pre-school. I'll start giving him the chance to learn from tomorrow now that I know but honestly don't think he's mentally or physically ready to make a good job of it. Also a bit worried that his usual reaction at the moment if he has messy hands (eg. food or mud at the park etc) is to try to wipe his hands on my clothes! :/

Yes nanny beach,waterrat, I’m glad you agree, I have a five year old who is still in pull-ups at night! Just because they don’t want to be disturbed ,madness. My own children now in their 20s were toilet trained by 3, my son by 2, he hated the feeling. I agree waterrat 4 is ludicrous. I actually hear mums at the school gate saying they can’t be bothered. This as unheard of years ago. I attended a course a few weeks ago with other childminders and they said exactly the same, children staying in nappies longer!

YANBU to be surprised. 3 is very young to do a good job of wiping their own bottom after a poo. I think the majority of 3 year olds would struggle to manage this.Hell, alot of 4 year olds would still struggle to clean themselves properly after a poo.

I think its very odd that a pre-school does not help children that age in the toilet when they need it.

Redland12
I have a five year old who is still in pull-ups at night! Just because they don’t want to be disturbed ,madness. It sounds like he wets the bed so perfectly normal to put pull ups on at that age if not dry at night. Are you this childs nanny? You don't sound very understanding. you dio realise bed wetting is somethign the child cannot control don't you?

Redland12
I have a five year old who is still in pull-ups at night! Just because they don’t want to be disturbed ,madness. It sounds like he wets the bed so perfectly normal to put pull ups on at that age if not dry at night. Are you this childs nanny? You don't sound very understanding. you dio realise bed wetting is somethign the child cannot control don't you?

Redland12
I have a five year old who is still in pull-ups at night! Just because they don’t want to be disturbed ,madness. It sounds like he wets the bed so perfectly normal to put pull ups on at that age if not dry at night. Are you this childs nanny? You don't sound very understanding. you dio realise bed wetting is somethign the child cannot control don't you?

Myotheruser. No he is dry every single morning. His mum says so.

I worried about my daughter cos she couldn’t even pull her own trousers down but she just did it in the end. They can physically do it if they have to. I was also worried about pe when she started reception but again she just did it

Yanbu at all, even older kids find this difficult. I would expect hem to remind him to wash hand, or assist if he needs help. If your not happy, look for another preschool, I would!

DS is 2.5 and has just started preschool this term, one morning a week. He is still in nappies and showing no signs that I can see of being ready to train, but his preschool are absolutely fine with that. Goodness knows I asked enough times!

He is behind on some aspects of his development, with a paediatric appointment pending to assess for possible additional needs, before any of the perfect parents sticks the boot in. Have a presumptive though, just in case.

You'll be amazed at what children can do when given the independence to. He'll want to be the same as his peers and will try to do things without adult help that he wouldn't necessarily try when parents are around.
He will be reminded (to wipe, wash hands etc )and supported appropriately by the staff when he's there.
They will just be setting out the expectations to parents so that they can begin to prepare and encourage the children to be independent over the summer.

Quite a lot of toddlers have long bodies and t-rex arms (proportionally) which makes wiping tough!

Quite a lot of toddlers have long bodies and t-rex arms (proportionally) which makes wiping tough!

Are there any other nursery’s around? I wouldn’t send my child there. She can wipe her own bum but they just sound shit.
I had to do a school change because the school I was going to send her to don’t help them with anything and I think it’s unfair.

Do remeber Mumsnet is a world wide forum different countries have different rules in some places no vaccination other then for medical reason = no schooling or nursery or childcare settings.

In New South Wales Austrillia if your child is not toliet trained and there are not under laying issues (aka SEN) pre schools and nursery can refuse too accept children and some have dragonic pocilys were a child soils themselves parents / guardians are called to deal with it

Sorry, I guess we are assuming that most posters on this thread are in the UK.

a consultant would say children "need" to be 4 to j=know what to do!

No a consultant didn't say children 'need' to be 4, this isn't even what the poster said.....but this is what happens, and then a load of posters pile on and say, '4!! Insane, they'll be going to university in nappies soon, not like that in my day.....' and harrumphing like Les Dawson leaning on his blimming fence.

NurseJackie - I really wish you hadn't posted that, it will become exaggerated and misquoted on every nappy/toilet training thread for ever more now!

There is a difference between having bladder and bowel control and being able to reliably use the toilet without help. I've had three children and each has been out of nappies at a different age and each has needed a different level of support with using the toilet. I don't think a pre school which insists all children must use the toilet independently and is never prepared to support at all is one I would want to care for my children, tbh.

Aw bless.
You've got a few weeks to teach him, he'll pick it up. Maybe not very efficiently but none of the other new kids at nursery will be experts.

It's amazing how quickly little children do learn such things. Make it fun.

Nursery school teachers cannot be expected to wipe bottoms really.

I actually hear mums at the school gate saying they can’t be bothered. This as unheard of years ago.

The need to wash and dry all those nappies was a powerful incentive to parents to nappy train in the past.

Nursery school teachers cannot be expected to wipe bottoms really.

Why?

so you wait till they are "almost" 4 about to start school, then what give it your full undivided attention! I had a DD who at 9 still wet the bed she slept the sleep of the dead, I could sometimes hear the wee pouring thru the bed, I never made a "thing" out of it at all, yest, she felt it wasnt right, anf used to make the bed, whilst it was soaking wet, but it wouldnt have made me put her back into aniies.

Worridmum

Can I ask, how in Australia, they know whether a child has underlying issues at 2 1/2 - do they have more intensive diagnostic tests for a wider variety of addition and medical needs?

back in nappies that should say.

I guess it various from boy to boy. I do know my nephew went straight from nappies to the toilet. No potty. And his choice. He was just over 2. Scary.

Newsflash: children are not all the same. My premature son was not fully toilet trained until 4.5 and yes we tried earlier and he wasn't ready and yes we used cloth nappies so of course it was my own laziness and love of washing out shitty nappies

I was very grateful for a supportive preschool which was happy to change nappies and help with toilet training. I now live in an area where parents are called to change messy kids and I think it's disgraceful and discriminatory. OP YADNBU.

I don't think ops dc is still in nappies though so that's irrelevant. She's concerned the nursery won't help him with the toilet, like making sure he's wiped properly or has washed his hands. I'd have thought helping with stuff like that was a fundamental part of caring for little ones.