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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Four women viciously attack a defenceless man ...

233 replies

loveyouradvice · 26/06/2018 19:37

www.lbc.co.uk/news/crime-caught-camera/tube-horror-women-man-attack-leicester-square/

Not in my name

I am shaking with anger and horror here... an utterly vicious and horrid attack on all levels.... the ferocity was shocking.

For it then to be attributed to women when they are clearly male is so very shocking on so very many levels......

This has gone too far..... How have the police ever agreed to count crimes committed by males as crimes committed by women, just on the say so of the male committing the crime?

I knew this was happening but I hadn't realised that anyone could "self-id" as female to the police.... How has this happened?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SuitedandBooted · 27/06/2018 14:26

Hi LBC minions,

WHY HAVE THE COMMENTS BELOW THE STORY BEEN REMOVED!?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/06/2018 14:29

For anyone who has been wondering why so many women on Mumsnet have been going on about harm done to women and girls by aggressive trans demands, this is exactly the sort of thing we predicted. It's what we've tried to alert people about.

To watch a video of four violent thugs beating the shit out of some poor bloke and then for a supposedly reputable news website to gaslight us that they are, in fact, women shows exactly why Mumsnet feminists are so concerned.

This is outright insanity. Up is down. Horses are parrots. Men are women. Other people get to decide, because relying on your senses is now classified as bigotry.

LanguidLobster · 27/06/2018 14:33

Prawn that's eloquently put.

I can't see much about this in the mainstream press? I had a look yesterday after reading this thread.

Battleax · 27/06/2018 14:34

BBC fights shy of covering anything awkward.

R0wantrees · 27/06/2018 14:35

apologies for wall of text but in seeking to understand media coverage there is some important context:

April Home Affairs Committee on Hate Crime interviewed senior representatives from Newspapers can be watched here

(see James Kirkup Spectator: article )

Report by Pink News (pro TRA)
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/26/british-newspapers-anti-transgender-moral-panic/

"UK newspaper editors have defended themselves from criticism after a surge in negative coverage of transgender issues led to accusations of inciting “moral panic.”"

Representatives of The Sun, The Times, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Express, the Daily Telegraph and Metro all appeared before Parliament’s Home Affairs Committee’s hate crime inquiry on Tuesday to answer concerns that the media has fuelled hostile sentiment towards minority groups.

Labour MP Stephen Doughty used the opportunity to challenge newspaper bosses over a spike in of negative stories about transgender people.

Former Labour leader Ed Miliband recently warned about a “moral panic” on transgender issues in the British press – after months of negative stories and columns relating to transgender people.

Echoing the concerns, Doughty said: “There appears to me to be a concerted effort by certain publications at the moment to promote some extremely unpleasant transgender hate material.”

Labour MP Stephen Doughty
Doughty continued: “There’s the Daily Mail [November] 2017 headline, ‘Church: let little boys wear tiaras,’ and The Sun in November with: ‘Now kids, it’s Alice in Transgenderland,’ ‘The skirt on the drag queen goes swish, swish, swish’ and ‘Trans classes for kids aged 2’ on the front page.

“Very recently, in March 2018, there was ‘Tran and wife.’ You’ll recall the horror of the couple involved. I thought it was absolutely disgusting, quite frankly.

“In the Express, there was Leo McKinstry talking about transgender people tightening their ‘demented grip on our society,’ ‘the growing pattern of transgender madness’ and ‘making a mockery of biological science.'”

Doughty added: “I have been very disappointed, particularly with the Telegraph and The Times, to see both publications jumping on the anti-trans bandwagon. There have been an increasing number of stories focusing on the issues around the trans community in The Times that seem to have been given particular prominence in recent months.

“The Times opinion piece in November 2017 had the headline, ‘Children sacrificed to appease trans lobby.’ You will understand why that is a particular concern, given the previous use of ‘gay lobby,’ ‘Jewish lobby’ and all of those sorts of things.

“[The Telegraph is] carrying pieces… Alison Pearson in October: ‘Will our spineless politicians’ love affair with LGBT ever end?’ Norman Tebbit, 17 October: ‘We need to investigate the causes of this sudden transgender explosion,’ and a piece, ‘Trans survey for 10-year-olds.'”

Addressing the editors Doughty added: “Nearly half of all transgender schoolchildren have attempted suicide. 41 percent of all transgender people have suffered hate crime just in the last year.

“When we see the suicide and hate crime figures, do you accept any responsibility whatsoever for generating the type of atmosphere that transgender people face in this country?”

Ian Brunskill, Assistant Editor of The Times, told the MP the newspaper’s continued coverage of trans issues was reflective of the “very fierce debate” on the subject, referencing disputes “within your own party” after Labour faced protests from anti-transgender activists.

Of the use of the headline ‘Children sacrificed to trans lobby,’ Brunskill added: “I can’t remember what sort of piece that was on, but I agree, the language there strikes me as slightly emotive.

“It was an opinion piece and that was the opinion being expressed, then the headline should quite reasonably express the opinion that the article is expressing.

“It is appearing on an opinion column. It is a fair reflection of a column that we have carried. We are quite happy to carry the column.”

Pushed by Doughty on whether the term “trans lobby” was acceptable, he said: “I don’t have any objection to that. There is a lobby, or rather there are several transgender lobbies.”

Asked if he would use the term ‘gay lobby’ or ‘Jewish lobby’, Brunskill replied: “If there were one.”

Brunskill proceeded to claim that “the newspaper has no line” on transgender issues and attributed most of the concerns to Times writer Janice Turner, who he asserted “is the only columnist who is doing this.”

He added: “The debate within the trans community has shifted quite dramatically and quite violently, in some ways, as you know. It has become about who is a member of it, essentially. It has become about self-definition. This is the toxic issue here. Janice has taken quite a firm view on that.”

Brunskill continued: “There is no sense that we are poking people with sticks on this. There is a bigger picture.

“We have a columnist who has a particular view on this issue, and the headlines on her column reflected the strength of feeling that there is around this issue in the kind of area that she is operating in. In no sense does that reflect the bigger picture of The Times’s take on this.”

Speaking about a piece that describes trans people as “demented,” Express editor Gary Jones said: “It is a comment piece. I suppose he is entitled to give his opinion within that. I would argue that newspapers have come a long way in the last 10, 20, 30 years on transgender.”

He added that “newspapers and editors, like myself, are very much aware that you need to get every single word right.”

Ian MacGregor of the Telegraph also denied his newspaper was waging a campaign against transgender rights.

He said: “We take the coverage of these issues so seriously. That is why, as members of IPSO and abiding by the code of conduct, we are very careful about the wording we use.

“We treat these issues with great sensitivity. One other piece of guidance that we watch very carefully is from IPSO to all its members on researching and reporting stories involving transgender individuals, which asks, and guides every reporter on a step-by-step approach, about whether mention of their sexuality is relevant, whether it is suitable to use certain ‘dead names’ and that kind of thing.”

He added: “Clearly, these are very sensitive issues and very important issues.

“It is important that our columnists and writers are entitled to their opinion in this world. Sometimes that can be upsetting. I would not be encouraging anyone to upset anyone, but the issues are quite sensitive. I think we reserve the right to upset if we have to, because these issues are important to discuss.”

Paul Clarkson, Managing Editor of The Sun, also hit back at allegations his newspaper had contributed to anti-trans coverage, saying: “I would actually say that The Sun is one of the most prominent media organisations to shed a light on transgender issues.

“We have an excellent relationship with a number of transgender lobby groups that we have been engaging with over a number of years.”

The boss added that he “completely refutes” criticism of the headline “Tran and wife” to refer to a transgender person getting married, claiming that “every word, headline and image was passed by transgender groups pre-publication.”

The couple involved in the story, Hannah Winterbourne and Jake Graf, have said they were “very disappointed when [the coverage] was let down by such an offensive and garish headline and front page.”

But Clarkson insisted: “With this story, we got their full blessing beforehand. There was no issue with ‘Tran and wife’ because you have three words to tell a story. It is not a front page story just to say, ‘Man marries woman.’

“The issue that some people within the community had was with the strapline along the top that explained that there was man that used to be women, marrying a woman who used to be a man.
“If anybody actually read the piece, everyone in the transgender lobby groups who we have spoken to were gushing with praise.”
(continues)

R0wantrees · 27/06/2018 14:41

thread discussing the equiry:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3233421-Home-Affairs-Committee-Hate-crime-enquiry-Newspaper-editors-interviewed

link to discussion about Trans Media Watch's briefing paper submitted to the enquiry:
OP comment,
Trans Media Watch appears to want the term 'trans identified male', or indeed referring to them as 'men' to be understood as hate speech and deems Mumsnet 'of particular concern'. This really has to be read to be believed; here is their written submission to the Home Affairs Committee:
data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/home-affairs-committee/hate-crime-and-its-violent-consequences/written/82105.pdf. It is quite the collection of lies and misrepresentations designed to completely malign women, the only good thing about it is that it is so obviously one-sided that most rational people would see that."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238618-Trans-Media-Watch-has-written-to-parliament-saying-trans-identified-male-can-be-considered-as-hate-speech-and-that-Mumsnet-users-referring-to-penises-are-being-transphobic

TodaysUserName · 27/06/2018 14:42

The mirror and star both carried the story yesterday. Twitter comments were largely confused members of the public ‘Errrr..... Are they not MEN’

SD and EM are both complete idiots.

R0wantrees · 27/06/2018 15:27

Star uses both women & female

"Disturbing video captures four females kicking and punching the man at Leicester Square station in the early hours of Sunday.

Staff and commuters desperately tried to pull the women off him."

Mirror uses 'gang of women'

"A gang of women repeatedly stamped on a man's head in a furious 2am brawl at Leicester Square underground station.

Shocking footage shows the group of women attacking the man as passersby scream at them to stop."

TornFromTheInside · 27/06/2018 17:28

They are men. They walk like men, talk like men, dress like men (in drag) and act like men with aggression and complete disregard for the welfare of anybody but themselves.

They dress like their idealised image of a woman (or rather they attempt to), their testosterone is there for all to see (alongside their fists, kicking legs and doubtless semi-erect penis).

Almost ironically, they aren't women, they never will be, but they aren't men either. They may well be male, but they will never be a man until they learn to control themselves and not others. Being a man ought to be measured as much by what he never does as much as what he does do.

I am not anti-transwomen, I am anti-men who behave like this.

How they can have the audacity to claim to 'feel' like a woman is beyond me. They have more in common with animals.

loveyouradvice · 27/06/2018 22:58

LBC have ERASED those comments????? Why?

I thought they were cogent and enquiring and naively I thought LBC wanted people to post what they could not (i.e. they needed to follow the police briefing but demonstrated with video the reality - reinforced by comments from the public....

Anyone any insight as to why this would have happened????

Genuinely mystified....

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 28/06/2018 04:30

I would love to know which specific lobbying group forced LBC to erase the comments, and if that group is also going to be included in the upcoming government consultation about the GRA.

R0wantrees · 28/06/2018 07:58

AngryAttackKittens May be worth asking Julia Hartley Brewer?

There's a fair amount of prescedent though for Media being required to delete / censor / limit comments etc

No doubt some will be very offended by those comments under the line that identify the violent attackers as male.

TransplantsArePlants · 28/06/2018 08:58

So let's be crystal clear

Group of people in dresses and wigs beat up a man in the most vicious way
They tell the police they are women
Police tell newspaper they are women
Newspaper tells us they are women
We get censored for questioning this
The Emperor has no clothes

Sarahconnor1 · 28/06/2018 09:21

TransplantsArePlants

That pretty much sums it up. Brave New world isn't it.

Popchyk · 28/06/2018 09:58

Yes, I think certain people are "distressed" that people are able to use their eyes.

So the comments have to go.

The truth must be hidden at all costs. And the blame must be put at the group of people who weren't even involved in the incident. And we must accept that blame without question.

R0wantrees · 28/06/2018 10:03

Current relevent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3290772-Reality-check?

OP comment:
(extracts)
"It's shit but I think we have to be pragmatic. And disclaimer: the below does not refer to all trans people or all transadvocates.

Imagine how many pairs of TRA eyes are trawling every single post on Mumsnet about trans issues. There are the resources, the legal support and the tech experience there to build a civil case, or find the one post that tips over into breaching IPSO and Ofcom guidelines, that can lead to sanction, compensation or worse for MN. (continues)

"And who will they complain to? They will be complaining to people who have had 'trans awareness training' and bodies which have extremely active awareness networks, looking for offensive material. Going back years, through the media, including the BBC and ITV at the highest levels, police, monitoring organisations, government, the civil service, about how vulnerable trans people are, about how oppressed trans people are. What are Mumsnet's chances of coming out the other side and being able to allow this conversation to go on? "

ShotsFired · 28/06/2018 10:17

I find it interesting that nobody has yet called anyone transphobic/bigoted on this thread.

Almost as if the facts speak for themselves.

MissionItsPossible · 28/06/2018 10:30

Madness. Absolute madness.
I suppose one good thing about social media is that it doesn't matter what they try and portray and what they try and censor, people have eyes and can see what's going on.

R0wantrees · 28/06/2018 10:32

Petition currently stands at 12 336

At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

" Consult with women on proposals to enshrine 'gender identity' in law

The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

More details:
We call for:
-Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of proposed changes and for women's voices to be heard.

-The government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces, data-gathering, and monitoring of sex-based discrimination.

  • The principle of single-sex spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended."
Popchyk · 28/06/2018 10:52

Mission, you'd get banned from Twitter for asserting that male people are men. So hard to get your voice out there on social media if you are banned.

Daily Mail link

Miranda Yardley, who is a transsexual, was banned from Twitter for the 'hateful conduct' of saying that a man is a man.

differentnameforthis · 28/06/2018 11:26

How has this happened?

Because people silence those who are trying to spread the word.
Because people refuse to believe
Because people call anyone who speaks against them "phobics" and other things, and try to silence them, to tell them to stop being bigots etc
Because people are blind to the truth.

Popchyk · 28/06/2018 11:32

Can you imagine the huge uproar if an incident of four white men attacking another man was blamed on black violence in the media?

Because the perpetrators self-identified as black to the police?

And people in the black community are not even allowed to say "Hang on, those blokes are white. It is nothing to do with us"?

But hey, we're only women so okay to put the blame for male violence on us.

LighthouseSouth · 28/06/2018 13:24

Mission, some people really do need their eyes tested

the comments on the Metro article have mostly missed the important information and focus on how dreadful it is that women commit violence.

MissionItsPossible · 28/06/2018 13:49

Shocking Shock