To despair at how helpless some people are

[ThankYouVeryMuch]

You see it on here all the time, poster says they’re in a difficult situation and lots of people respond with sensible advice and details of organisations they can call for help and there’s always a reason why they can’t ask for help.

I saw a job at a local hair salon advertised on Facebook, 1 person posted “interested” underneath so the salon owner responds with their contact details (that were in the ad) and asks for a cv and the person responds “I don’t have a cv, nevermind” or someone else put on my local Facebook group saying she was new to the area and asking if there were any new mums in the local area, so I responded that there was a lovely, free mum and baby group in her village the next day and I knew the organiser so if she wanted to go along I’d make sure she got a warm welcome, and the response was “I can’t go to a baby group, what if none of the other mums speak to me”

Some people just seem as if the world owes them something and they should get what they want without putting in any effort.

I'm not a "do it for you" sort of person consequently my eldest 3 (23,17 mad 15) can cook, use a washing machine/hoover/dishwasher etc. They can get around on public transport. They can or are learning to budget and if they run out of money then I don't bail them out (except essentials like travel but I sometimes need bailing out too ) My youngest is 7 and can hoover and work the washing machine with help. My BIL was given money whenever he asks (and still is at 44), cannot work a Hoover let alone a washing machine and cannot budget for toffee. That is all down to my sister. Parents need to back off and let their DC take control. OK they will screw up but they will learn from it.

All of those Victorian and Edwardian invalid ladies suffering from nerves and neurasthenia were doing the same thing.

Yes, my great-great-grandmother apparently went into a "grand decline" - which I always felt was a bit of a luxury position which was possible because there were servants doing everything in the house, and ensuring meals got served and laundry got done and so on.

Advice has changed over years - another of my female ancestors had a heart condition and had to take much rest and not overdo things and lead a generally calm and quiet life, on doctor's orders, but these days, you would probably be told to do more exercise (building it up) and keep active, unlessit was really severe (that 100 years ago, you'd probably just be dead anyway.)

To the person saying you need to enter a six digit code to go to the loo

I came across this for the first time only a couple of years ago. It is confusing the first time you have to deal with it, especially if you're not in the habit of reading receipts very thoroughly.

I had the added challenge of the instructions being in Spanish, which I can muddle by in, but am far from fluent, so not having come across the concept before, I couldn't work out what I was struggling to translate. Fortunately, the woman behind the till had better English than my Spanish, so I didn't end up wetting myself.

Oh dear... .. and oh well! I woke my 18 year old up enough to place a pen in his hand... prodded him into a half sitting position... and told him to sign his name. I don’t think he even opened both eyes. He then lay back down in his bed and carried on snoring. I sealed the envelope and posted it (old school application),

This was “his” application letter for his first job. He wasn’t even awake enough to know what he was applying for.

“His” most excellent letter got him an interview, which he attended, suited and booted and got the job. That was 7 years ago.

Last year he left that job, with great skills and a good reference and went into his second job, much higher up the food chain and earning enough to pay his new mortgage for the lovely little house that he and his fiancée have bought. He’s a health and safety executive and doing great with excellent promotion prospects. (I had no input with his jump into the new position!)

Just so people know it IS possible to have a brief moment of being “one of those mothers” and not raise a completely useless sap of humanity that barely knows how to wipe his own arse

Why are you asking people to combat a secret code to use a loo?

To ensure they're only used by customers. Coffee shop loos aren't all that clean at the best of times, without having them accessible to everyone who walks in off the street.

While better men than we go out and start their working lives
At grubbing weeds from gravel-paths with broken dinner-knives.

In other words, no-one is so special that they can't start at the bottom and do the shit jobs, and work their way up from there.

Gerard, if your son is so capable, why didn't he do the application himself?

When Adam delved and Eve span,
Who was then the gentleman?

One of my favourite quotations. Seems to fit nicely with the Kipling!

I am older and probably could not read the 6 numbers on a receipt.

Not quite the same but this thread reminds me of the time I answered The Pub front door (out of hours) to a girl who "had come about the care job". The Bells Care Home was very massive and prominent and very clearly labelled and across the road. The Bells Inn Pub and Hotel is also very obviously signposted and a very obviously a pub, but that's where she went! How the fuck do you get that wrong? I hope to god someone that thick didn't get the job looking after vulnerable people.

AynRand um.. this would be because he was asleep.

He was applying for other stuff but THAT one, I’d seen advertised in the paper, the closing date was almost up so I rattled off a letter, made him sign, couldn’t be arsed to wake him up properly, took it to work with me and posted it. Bob’s your uncle; Fanny’s your aunt. We still laugh about it now...

I just thought I’d present a grey area to the black and white canvas of the mumsnet ideal

AynRand um.. this would be because he was asleep.

Was he not going to be awake any time that day?

I mean, obviously it all worked out well so that's great. I just don't see why, given he's clearly such a capable young man, you wouldn't just tell him about the vacancy when he was up rather than drafting the letter yourself and getting him to sign it while unconscious. Just seems weird to me.

Oh well, all's well that ends well.

Life would be so boring without a little weirdness tho wouldn’t it

For all the laughing at “helicopter” parenting, I imagine that a lot of “independent” young adults have supportive parents behind them. Their competence and resilience exists because of advice and guidance.

I’m not condoning Mums turning up to interviews, but I’m pretty sure that most people accessing competitive uni courses, and first jobs have help with their application forms.

As with so many things in life, it’s easier to be competent, when you have the right start.

No I didn't have support with my university application form. I was the first person in my family to go and my parents had no idea how to complete it. I can't remember, but probably had help to apply for my first part time job when I was still at school. But not my first proper job after university. And it was much harder then as there was no internet where you can get lots of advice about how to do this.

Buttered building resilience happens long before university application age. I was applying in the early 90s and it didn't cross my or any of my friends minds that our parents would be involved. Form tutors did a session on UCAS applications and offered to proof read our personal statements, and reminded us we'd need our parents to sign financial paperwork. One of my classmates father's wouldn't disclose his income (his son was expecting to qualify for a means tested grant). It was a state six form and the assumption was that most of our parents hadn't been to university, they weren't expected to be involved, weren't and didn't need to be.

I’ve noticed this. My xmil and xsil case in point. Ok I get that they had never travelled but wanted to see dc. Ok, so first time we had to fly to their country, get hire car and go fetch them and fly them over here. Ok but I’d expect them to learn how to do this themselves after their first experience.

7 times later of xh doing this for them is one of the many reasons he’s an xh.

I don't think this is new. There have always been those who have no skill or initiative at engaging with life's organisational challenges. And actively avoid learning.

I come from a farming background. One set of relations has always been bitter that their siblings farm has been a much more successful enterprise. They win awards for diversification and quality. Three generations are actively engaged with their own projects. My mother always sympathised and agreed with the "unfair" position.
However, the successful lot are much, much more organised and forward planning. The others, chaotic, hopeless at communicating with each other, never any planning for the inevitable ups and downs. Their farm will be bankrupt soon.

Sounds to me like these type of people have mental health issues. It's not rational behaviour is it?

The other version of Kipling

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
You may have seriously misjudged the situation"

I think it isn’t a new thing just less visible in the past. A widow who lives opposite my mum was completely helpless at life stuff so my mum had to act as chaperone/carer. She had lived with her mum then married and her Dh moved in. In her 70s her Dh and mum died in quick succession. She had never been to a shoe shop alone or an optician. Lots of people will never have lived on their own until old age. I can think of two similar ladies in their 80s in our family. Married young, never really worked, couldn’t drive, husband would take them shopping on a Saturday. Never travel alone. My grandma used to say husband of one was sacked because his work was so sick of her phoning re minor issues with their child.

The 6 digit code on the receipt is likely to be sight related, many people can’t see properly yet dont wear glasses/contacts. Or no idea they needed to keep the receipt for the Toilet, I’ve never heard of this before.

All of those Victorian and Edwardian invalid ladies suffering from nerves and neurasthenia were doing the same thing.

My great-grandmother took to her box bed in the tenement flat sitting room and had her grown daughters running around for her (one worked from home as a dressmaker as poor mother couldn't be left alone). My father and his mother (widowed DIL) always believed that there was nothing wrong with her. My haundless aunt was brought up in that household with everything done for her by her own aunts who were running around after their own mother.

Why do these threads become so competitive? Blimey. Everyone's different. Some people find things harder. The reason you notice it more now is probably because of social media. So people are saying things 'out loud' to a larger group of people.

Dealing with peopke who find obstacles to things is pretty straight forward. Just don't offer solutions - ask them how they think they should deal with it and let them work it out. If they're your responsibility (like your child) ask what they need from you, so they can think through the problem and help they need...

dorisdog, I've tried that approach with the person I posted about yesterday. She'll come up with the one solution she finds acceptable which hasn't worked - usually involving someone else dropping everything and doing it for her - then get angry because it doesn't have the desired effect.

This will either be followed by something to the effect of "well I'm OVER with doing things for others when no-one can take ten minutes out of their day to carry my shopping," which no-one takes seriously as she rarely does anything for anyone else anyway. She may also start reposting stuff on social media about whichever chronic fatigue problem she's claiming this week, alongside snippy comments about how NO-ONE UNDERSTANDS.

On the odd occasion that there's something she really wants to do, she will find the energy to do it, getting over her phobia of public transport and/or cancellation of her car insurance for Her Own Good in the process.

I have a friend in a relationship with a totally useless cannot do anything man. She thinks he is cute!
She does everything for him (he doesn't work either due to anxiety) yet does nothing around their now joint home. He manages to play Xbox games and watch tv all day long.
No idea why anybody would be interesting in such a waste of space but she says she loves her 'man child' and thinks he is 'cute'... because he is so dependant on her

It takes all sorts