Cultural appropriation

[Londonerlove]

AIBU to be totally annoyed by cultural appropriation.
I read this today and though wtf!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-44572555

I’m not a fan of kim but if she wants her hair in braids she can have her hair in braids?

Shouldn’t this be praised rather than attacked?
Is eating pasta cultural appropriation?

And sharing resources to ensure no community feels disadvantaged is a good thing and no one here is arguing against that. I don’t understand why you don’t seem to understand that people arguing that CA exists WANT better integration and respect.

It seems that this whole argument is down to your own insecurities about being somehow considered racist for using the “wrong term”. Rather than educating yourself and listening to the many people on here who have told you why they feel upset at CA and potentially adjusting behaviours (if you think you need to) you have chosen to argue, call them petty and dismiss them so you can carry on as before.

@irma, the majority of people on here arguing that CA exists ARE the people “we are purporting to champion” , Ie non white European.

And for the millionth time no one is saying you can’t buy bloody hummus or any other food from your local supermarket. You just don’t get what CA is or isn’t

..and to think you’ve got so much right to be offended due to your Sephardic heritage ............🤔

Why can't I feel offended on behalf of my Sephardic heritage? You have no problem being offended on behalf of your half Arab heritage? Do you think your right to be offended trumps mine? Stop being so bossy and telling people what they can and can't personally be offended by.

It says the white middle class are choosing to self segregate.

it seems like the critics of the report in question claim this to be the case.

Whereas the report seems to claim this:
the city’s diverse ethnicity is also identified in the report as a major factor in social segregation and community tension

I'd be surprised if these tentions and the segregation was "just" because of one subset of white people... (A certain Mr Mahmood might agree...)

It also says that there’s a large black and Asian population who are disadvantaged.

Yes, but it also said (quoting Mr Mahmood):

There have been issues where majority poor white estates have been forgotten and a failure to engage with the local authorities
The city council has concentrated too much on serving individual ethnic communities in the city rather than sharing resources across a geographic area for all communities.

@lost - I was being facetious Dear. You seem to be arguing that CA doesn’t exist , but then getting offended coz of some fish and chip incident that apparently happened. Basically I don’t believe you

And to be fair, every time people have tried to address the serious issues, there have been a million “Oh, you can’t say anything these days am I allowed to eat enchiladas any more? What about Panama hats- are they racist now?” posts. It’s been difficult to get past the wide eyed disingenuousness to the serious issues. Not forgetting the “white people are the real minority these days” mindset.......

And for the millionth time no one is saying you can’t buy bloody hummus or any other food from your local supermarket

I think I'm actually going to make an effort to at least occasionally source () our hummus more authentically. (Well, ok. Our hummus is actually homemade. But I do occasionally buy ready made falafel)

It seems like the economic aspects of CA is one of the potentially most problematic ones (?)

Also, supporting smaller shops isn't a bad idea anyway...

@maria - yes you’re right and I updated my post to say no one is arguing that resources shouldn’t be shared. I’m certainly not arguing that there aren’t poor, under privileged white people in the U.K.

Rather than educating yourself and listening to the many people on here

Goodness, Strongmummy, first of all the hectoring tone of that.... words fail me. And secondly, I take issue with the "many people" - I think a little reading comprehension might lead you to reassess that as "a few"; it's just the same old culprits posting relentlessly (and increasingly daftly).

say no one is arguing that resources shouldn’t be shared.

There are various discussions on this thread... I must have missed it.

I'm certainly not arguing that there aren’t poor, under privileged white people in the U.K.

Neither would I... But the people that seem to believe that white privilege is sort of.. absolute and that it transcends classes? Those seem to.

The idea that a black upper middle class family (e.g.) is less privileged than a bunch of poor, white people living on one of these where majority poor white estates that have been forgotten?

It seems divisive. And ingenuous.

@strongmummy thank you for enlightening me. I can read thank you.

I think you know exactly what point I’m trying to make.

@london - I genuinely don’t think I do. If it’s that white people can be poor and underprivileged, then yes, no one is arguing they can’t.

It seems to me like CA often focuses on individuals.

Some are immensely privileged (Kardashian...) and some might be kids from one of these estates that simply want to wear breads. Or Bantu knots... (Or whatever)

The focus on these individuals seems misplaced. Seeing as privilege and money are so closely tied together.

Focusing on people that engage in CA to gain / create wealth just seems more honest to me. And like it might directly help disadvantaged communities...

*braids.

Not breads... Not that bread isn't a lovely thing either.

I think @maria made the point I was trying to make

@irma, please let us know the time and the place for discussing CA. People gave many examples of CA and no one is tying themselves up in knots about anything. Cultural sensitivity is key, that’s all we’re saying. People have given examples of their own experiences as to when they’ve felt hurt/belittled or confused. They have been dismissed and we’ve been told to justify those feelings. It’s the naysayers who’ve been tying themselves up in knots with the “am I a member of the national front for buying curry paste at Aldi” nonsense

@maria I’m don’t think it’s as simple as that as humans are complex and feelings are complex. If you’re hurt by something it won’t matter whether the perpetrator is rich or poor, although it may help you frame your feelings I suppose

strongmummy

Yes...but it seems to me like many are hurt because they are or feel disadvantaged. Many might feel less hurt if they lived in a nice little villa, would they?

Anyhow.. back to CA:

Is this in your opinion CA?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=A7pjX64ehwo

We certainly need to tstand up for the right of the British to call plaits plaints (we will have none of this braids nonsense here.... a plait has always been a plait). I stand up for the rights of plaits and the fight against the Americanisation of English English.

I always think things come down at heart to being kind to others. If you do that you don't go far wrong in life. So learning what upsets other people always helps.

See Bertrand I don’t think you do I think your first thought Is this is racist maybe because you have been round the block a few times.

When we get to the issues of asking random West Indian women their best chicken recipie because of course they all have one that’s just ridiculous.

Food clothes etc should be shared just like language or they don’t evolve and eventually die out or are just cling onto by a tiny minority who shrink away from society as a whole and that’s wrong abd unhealthy.

Some cultural aspects are downright hideous as in FGM so by women of these communities sharing their stories it can be hopefully stopped.

Not all cultural norms are good just because it’s always been done that way.

Yes racism lurks in many subtle ways but it does around the world. It’s not just white peiole who say think daft things there are many threads on her regarding strange behaviour of foreign pil.

Outright racism and sexism absolutely fight. Telling a black woman at work her hair isn’t professional out right racist.

But women wearing certain clothes and hair styles no that’s just a choice anyone can make and no you don’t need to know the origin of your bag or the meaning of your necklace or even religious symbols If you arnt interested. That’s not racist that’s just choice.

Xenia

Is a plait exactly the same as a braid?

I've never heard the term Dutch plait...?

Bertrand, you have not answered the question as to why you think it would be in any way appropriate to assume that because someone is of West Indian heritage they have a "best chicken recipe". And, you suggested earlier that you would ask such a person for one!

You are presumably against "assumptions", so why is this ok? To me, as I said earlier, it would be absolutely cringeworthy and making you look the very epitome of an earnest, misguided privileged (white) person.

We have "French pleats" in English which is probably what a dutch plait is? I am not an expert as ever since I was about 6 I have been trying to grow my hair long - i remember that girl in my class, hair down to her bottom..... and it has never grown long enough for lots of lovely plaits. Heidi when I was a child, on TV, had plaits never braids whereas US tv programmes always referred to braids. US books like Laura Ingalls Wilder had bangs (for a "fringe") and "switches" whereas in English english we tend to say hair piece.

However I accept language changes and lots of people get their language from US television these days - in itself a massive cultural issue - which can be a force for good (with liberal non sexist fair values) but not always.

The chicken thing wasn’t me. But hey ho, happy to be a generic lefty snowflake......