Cultural appropriation

[Londonerlove]

AIBU to be totally annoyed by cultural appropriation.
I read this today and though wtf!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-44572555

I’m not a fan of kim but if she wants her hair in braids she can have her hair in braids?

Shouldn’t this be praised rather than attacked?
Is eating pasta cultural appropriation?

@buttonlamp - good point about yoga. I do it purely for exercise and strength and do not claim in anyway to be more spiritual because of it / decide to wear a bindi while practising 🙄I see it as I would a Pilates class. I cringe when people say namaste 🤣

mozzybites yeah, when you say this Does this mean that CA is an issue when there is current oppression but not historical issues. This leads to issues of how historical does the oppression have to be.

This is what I have been thinking about. I don't know the answer. But, personally, I think that CA is more of an issue if the people are currently being oppressed, but they could also have historical issues. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist outwith this.

That's just a personal thing for myself and maybe I'm wrong to think that way.

I drum in in a samba band. I am white. Almost all members of the band (about 50) are white.
Samba drumming originates from black Brazilians who arrived in Brazil as slaves.
I have read a lot about the history of samba and it's origins in candomblé etc, because I want to understand the music and culture, not just play it.

Given that the music essentially has come from opressed black slaves, and I am a privileged white European, Am I guilty of cultural appropriation?

@downthestrada, you raise good questions. The thing is google has all the answers really and so it’s just pure laziness in my view. If you can post a pic of yourself going on a night with a bindi stuck to your head with the #exotic you can google the cultural significance surely

Drumming I think it's more just trying not to be flippant about it. You have clearly been learning the history and culture. If your band do their best to let people know where it all comes from and why they want to learn - then I wouldn't see an issues with this.

But, I don't know if it's still technically appropriation.

I think learning is great in general so would never suggest people didn't do it. In this case I wonder how important the knowledge is if it doesn't have any meaning to people from another culture.
With MacKenzie, I wonder what the value of all the Americans I meet knowing they have given their girl a boys name would be. In their culture they haven't done this only in mine. It used to drive me a bit nuts but I realized it really was my issue and not theirs and the originator of a cultural idea can't insist they own it for ever and it can only be used the way they want.

strongmummy I agree that there's laziness and people can't be bothered. But, I wanted to pose the question to those that want to do what they like without thinking about it, and still try to advocate for some sort of diverse harmonious community. How would they expect that to happen in the real world? Without them putting any effort in? Is it all to be done by the cultures that are being appropriated?

mozzy good point. That's why I think it's more of an issue to those that are currently demeaned for perhaps wearing their own culture's dress whilst others are wearing it flippantly without care. I think that's the root of the upset too and it's very valid.

@down - understood and yes I’m interested to hear the answers too

I think the idea is that you provide opportunities for it to happen naturally rather than sending people out to preach. Like cross community cultural events or avoiding things like segregation of social housing allocation.

One of the interesting things they found out after the Bradford riots was just how similar the communities in the two opposing areas were, similar deprivation, incomes, educational attainment, worries. They had almost identical complaints against the opposite community, and even the same rumours were circulating both areas about the other side having more money spent on them by the public sector an getting preferential treatment. And both sides claimed they wanted to get along with the other side but ‘They just don’t like us because we’re different from them’.

The idea is, that if there is an exchange of culture and a cultural transfer both ways, there becomes more communal commonalities which bring people together and prevent misunderstanding.

CA theory is the opposite of that because it says we do not share, we do not find things we can have in common, we do not mix our cultures together because we are separate.

Food is actually a really good example of this, because it was something that was symbolic of difference (a lot of racist language has centred around food, particularly curry) but that difference has become so small it’s lost that symbolism, which I think is part of the reason it’s not seen as CA.

It wouldn't be okay to copy another culture and at the same time be disrespectful to others from the culture doing the same thing, the key issue there has to be be disrespectful to people of other cultures not the copying part.

@Leah - no one is arguing AGAINST integration and you keep missing that point. Cultural appropriation is about taking without sensitivity or regard for the culture you are using. A community coming together sharing food, ideas, dress, language etc isn’t appropriation!!! How many times does this need to be spelled out?

Cultural appropriation is a problem when people Madonna, Beyoncé or Katy Perry etc use symbols and traditions from other cultures to appear different and exotic. Like wearing bindis, henna, sari etc in a music video,

Their fan following then applies those traditions as a fashion statement

I didn’t tell anyone to have a shag

Wearing a sari just because you like it, or appreciate the style isn't the issue but wearing it because it's trendy or a fad is cultural appropriation. My art teacher, (24 years ago) not Asian would wear Sindhi embroidered tunics not as a fashion statement, or trend but because she felt comfortable in them and found them beautiful. I believe that isn't cultural appropriation

But surely the more these so called stars do this the more people talk about it and that engendered discussions and convos. Isn’t that a good thing?

But if it's not currently happening naturally, will it ever? Are people expected to just wait and hope? Because right now, I have family in the UK that most of the times wear what would be considered 'normal' in the UK. However, sometimes they wear traditional clothing from their African backgrounds and from the response they get, it's not feeling particularly harmonious.

I think food is treated differently because it's not something that you wear or is visible on you. I take your point about curry and racist language, but I think people are quite right to complain about having to wait even a similar length of time before their culture is accepted. I just really dislike the attitude of put up and shut up, wait until it gets better.

CA theory is about sharing and learning. Learning enough that you're doing/wearing things respectfully.

@Ohmydayslove no because then it's a fad, when out of trend it will become unacceptable as of fashion.

Out

Ohmydays-why do you want Hindu women to no longer have a mode of dress that identifies them, and which they have worn for generations? What's in it for her to allow women from other faiths and none to wear it?

Community cultural events have been good in my area. But, I think that the only people that attend are people who are already "okay" with the culture.

I still think a lot of it is cultural appreciation. People might not be thinking terribly sensitively, but the wearing of certain clothes/jewellery is mostly not done with any ill-intent or feelings of "domination". It's simply just done in the same way one might wear a Breton top, or beret. People just like the item and are not giving its origins the least bit of consideration.

I agree that hash-tagging in references to Indian religions is idiotic - but that's what it is - and in people's minds no different from captioning a shot of them in a striped top "Oooh la la".

I can't believe that some of the more angry posters on this thread have never fallen foul of their own CA rules.

One poster in particular can at least proudly proclaim they've not appropriated anything from the Culture of Decency.

@taco why should food and clothing be any different? Both are part of a culture.
If you read my post you would know because that's literally what I wrote about for the entirety of it...

CA theory is the opposite of that because it says we do not share, we do not find things we can have in common, we do not mix our cultures together because we are separate.
Who on earth told you this? That is not the theory of CA at all...

Cultural appropriation is about taking without sensitivity or regard for the culture you are using. A community coming together sharing food, ideas, dress, language etc isn’t appropriation!!!
This is a much more accurate description of CA imo.

animaginative yes see that.

Bertrand many do in my area of Handsworth but I see your point.

So what’s the way forward? To share and to embrace which I find more acceptable than to keep cultures more seperate out of respect.

I honestly think this is a lot to do with seperate schooling.