Would it be cruel to stop buying my dad fags

[Sunnyday1203]

My dad is currently in hospital, he is being discharged ( I do have another thread going) but would really appreciate some opinions on this. Dad has dementia and a heavy smoker. Due to his smoking it is making almost impossible to find a home that will accommodate him smoking in the garden. The only way he can get Ciggs is if I buy them ( with his money). My DP thinks we should stop buying him and so making him a non smoker. I think this would be very distressing for Dad but equally I do know people seem to have problem with smokers. I don't know what do for the best

Could you try to get him to use a vap? Would the nursing homes let him use one?

I think that would be a pretty rubbish thing to do. Can he return home with support?

He's an adult so yes it would be cruel.

I don’t have much experience with smoking but could you try him on patches? See how he finds it. Speak to someone in the hospital about it, how long had he been in not smoking?

He has a patch, no going home really is not an option. Have thought about Vape but he has said no zzz exactly, smoking seems to be a very big issue these days. I am an ex smoker so see both sides.

oh and he has been smoking for 40 years.

When he had capacity to decide he wanted to keep smoking, and they are being bought with his money, so I think it would be unreasonable of you to stop.

No I wouldn't stop buying them, he would really suffer.

Buy him the fags. He's got dementia but he's not a child. If your dad wants them you should buy them.

Would a home keep the cigarettes and take him into the garden for a fag break? I can see why homes don't want him to have them as they would be major fire risk inside.

My daughter works with dementia patients in a care home and quite a lot of these residents smoke. The residents are allowed to smoke in the communal garden. I would buy your father a pack of cigarettes and see how he goes. I personally wouldn't want him to go cold turkey. I don't think a vape pen is the answer. There's too much choice of flavoured liquid, strength of nicotine, recharging the unit, burnt coils and so on.

Nursing homes wouldn't be exempt from the requirements re smoking in the workplace I shouldn't think. The staff there have the same rights to a smoke free environment as any other worker. I did think residents were usually able to smoke in gardens though.

A client in a home I worked in had an ecig that looked just like a real one. She barely used it though.

He's been smoking for 40 years, it's probably one of his few remaining pleasures. I think it would be incredibly cruel to effectively force a grown adult to quit smoking.

I do get your dilemma!

Capacity is time and decision specific- does your dad have capacity to decide whether or not to smoke, even if he lacks capacity in other areas?

^The MCA says that a person is unable to make their own decision if they cannot do one or more of the following four things:

Understand information given to them
Retain that information long enough to be able to make the decision
Weigh up the information available to make the decision
Communicate their decision – this could be by talking, using sign language or even simple muscle movements such as blinking an eye or squeezing a hand.^

Just because a decision is unwise does not mean someone lacks the capacity to make it.

In any case, when someone lacks capacity, you have to act in their best interests and the least restrictive way possible. I think it would be tremendously unfair and an abuse of the power you have in this situation to deny your dad cigarettes, tbh.

My mum gave up at 79 after smoking since early teens. She died of lung cancer in her mid 80s.
However....
If your dad has dementia, he may find the routine of smoking a comfort and a "friendly face". To be frank, as long as it is still safe for him from a fire risk sense, I would keep on.
The problem will be how he copes with nicotine withdrawal when (I'm sorry but it is only when) he becomes physically more unwell.
A lovely relative I was close to had dementia- she didn't smoke - so I understand a little about how that condition affects sufferers and their families.

I imagine that one of the reasons the home objects or has heavy restrictions is to protect its employees. And its liability in respect of those employees as well as the fire risk to all.

Thanks all. Dads SW is adamant that most homes will not accept smokers, but seems she is not correct. Part of the problem with his smoking/dementia is that he is chain smoking as he forgets his just put one out. Also when he was home he burnt holes in his mattress, so very worrying. bell he would not smoke indoors.

Is she right about that? Why don't you have a ring round the homes and ask them all individually? Ideally, if he has dementia, a dementia specialist facility would be better anyway, as lots of places don't really 'get' dementia. Check out this website to see what you can find:
www.cqc.org.uk/what-we-do/services-we-regulate/find-care-home

Fwiw, I've placed plenty of people into Res care that have had smoking facilities outside. Despite people's personal feelings about this, the home will be your dad's home, not a prison. I would be wary of placing him somewhere that was so restrictive personally.

I really think she is wrong! Maybe phone a few of them yourself and ask their policy. I'll imagine they'll just manage it, you can smoke in psychiatric hospitals (admittedly outside but still) so I can't see how they'd get away with not allowing it in care home. I'd challenge her on this.

Years ago half my breaks were taken up with taking residents into the garden for a smoke lol. It never really worried me, as I was a smoker myself so would have one with them.

Its worth talking to the people in the homes themselves, some homes are better than others, some respect peoples wishes better than others. Some are nothing short of prisons grrrr.

See if you can make some appointments and go and visit some xx (although appointments can be deceiving, so really important to talk to people who live there and relatives if possible)

I have visited 3 places so far , last place was lovely but after meeting dad she said they could not accommodate his smoking as on his notes he is constantly asking to be taken out. I am not going to stop him smoking, this was my DP idea, I do not agree.

My grandfather had dementia and also eventually had to go into a home. It wasn’t safe having him with us anymore as he would wander off outside the house or leave the gas on. I can’t believe how many people don’t understand how simple this is = he has to go into a home, and most homes won’t allow smoking (for very good reason). Therefore YANBU to stop buying him cigarettes. You aren’t doing it out of spite! My grandfather was devastated when we had to take his driving licence too, but needs must!