To wonder how the heck schools expect working parents to cope with this?

[Worriedaboutdog]

Apologies this may be a rant. DS1 is due to start school in September. We have therefore put childcare plans in place based on him starting school on the first day of term in September. School have just announced that:

a) reception start a week later
And
b) as a summer birthday, DS actually will do half days for another week after that, and ‘must be picked up at 1.30pm’.

No mention of either of these things was made when we looked round the school. We have already juggled the time off we have available to look after him over the summer. As it happens it’s probably easier for us than most parents as DH is a shift worker so can cover some days, but we were relying on him going to school at the beginning of September, and being in after-school club on days DH isn’t at home until I can get there to pick him up. Wtf are parents who both work Monday-Friday meant to do about two extra weeks?! This was all announced today in a meeting (I couldn’t go, because it was at 3.30pm, but DH did), and when he asked the class teacher if they had to go home at lunchtime or could stay and then go to after school club, she said they had to go home and we’d have to get ‘a grandparent or someone’ to pick them up. So we’ll just magic up a grandparent physically fit and willing enough to do a whole week of half days childcare, who is actually able to drive to the school, then.

He can possibly go back to his current nursery for the week he isn’t in school at all, but the half days are stumping me. I think I probably am being unreasonable to be cross - I realise school is not designed to be childcare, and therefore not run for the convenience of the parents, BUT they must know that parents make assumptions (based on the information on their website!) about the dates of terms and the length of the school day, and make arrangements accordingly. And that this just isn’t feasible for everyone, and if they don’t bloody tell you about it until June then plans (and budgets) for September childcare are already in place! Argh.

Yes it is very annoying. Our school did something like first week they attended for a single morning in small groups with parents, second week they did until before lunch, third week until just after lunch, fourth week FT. The otherwise lovely reception teacher told me”oh we used to do it over six weeks but some parents didn’t like it 🙄”. She was a great teacher but just didn’t get what it was like for working parents these days.

All ok if you have a SAHP or nanny/au pair but those are luxuries for most families.

School isn’t child care, it’s pretty standard settling in period for where I’m from, and even in my hometown Scotland.

Our school is full days from day one and both kids coped fine. ....so not totally inconceivable

wow *They're not disrupting anything! Schools operate the way they operate and always have done, which is for the benefit of the majority and for operational reasons. They cannot be expected to cater for the myriad of personal arrangements of all the families that attend.

Why does it come as such a shock to people that once their child starts school, they'll have to organise wrap-around care?‘*

??? Schools aren’t being asked to cater to a ‘myriad’ of personal arrangements they are being asked to stick to their regular hours. Hours that parents HAVE organised wrap around care for.

I found staggered starts a total pain in the arse when mine were that age, and totally unnecessary.

This is just the beginning, OP. Primary schools are at least 50 years behind the times, thinking that all families have a SAHP, usually the mum, and also armies of grandparents, relatives and friends just waiting to step in and collect the child at the drop of a hat.

Then there is the near compulsory attendance at sports day, school nativity, summer fetes, winter fetes, meet the teacher, parents evening during school time etc.

Add to that costumes for ridiculous dressing up days, last minute requests for freshly baked cakes for the cake stall.

They really think that parents have nothing else to do.

I am pleased to say though that in my experience secondary school is much less in your face. I am relieved that I no longer have primary school children.

By the way, you certainly don't have to set up monthly standing orders as voluntary contributions to the school. My DD1's school tried this once, and there was little uptake. People found it an utter cheek and it didn't work.

It’s annoying but you’ll cope. The school’s priority is your child and making it easier for them to settle in. They’re not interested in your childcare arrangements, that’s for you to sort out.

Completely standard! Be glad yours only lasts two weeks! Ours is a month!!

You've got off very lightly. When 3 of mine started school it was a 7 week transition and they only went full time the week before half term. Prior to this they did alternate mornings and afternoons. The first week was just an hour and a half a day, for half the week. It was apparently the best way of getting to know them and them settling.

Yep DS was last man standing at nursery when he didn't start school until 9th September. We then used childminder for the 3 week settling in period. Both of us were in relatively new jobs too. Nightmare.

they are being asked to stick to their regular hours.

Regular hours are kept. But children starting Reception have always had a staggered start - for good reasons. Inconveniencing some parents is not top of the list of priorities.

Dc joined the Y1 children for lunch and in the afternoon did some reading with the TA. By day 3 there were other reception children and they did the same. By the end of the “transition” period, over half the class was full time and they’d had lunch grouped with Y1 every day (and made friends in Y1) and had lots of stories and some phonics and music in the afternoons.

I'm guessing this was quite a small school. In my school they would be going in to lunch with 90 Y1s and 90 Y2s, having to manage carrying their own trays and drink to the table and clearing it away afterwards. When reception children start staying for lunch they go in 15 minutes earlier and have reception staff available to guide them so that they learn the routine.

It's really tricky. When dd started reception it was staggered over 2.5 weeks and dh and I used our annual leave between us as we didn't know anyone else to help. It's easier with dd2 as we have friends at the school now, however as we both work we cannot repay favours, so it's still hard.

There are lots of events you get invited to e.g. at 10am or 2.30 which is very difficult to fit around work. We certainly haven't been to everything but I'm glad to have the chance to go in. It's much much more involved than nursery was, but I was expecting it as I have a lot of friends with older kids.

Tbh as a teacher I would rather not allow parents through the gates at all. Schools (not teachers, usually the ones at the top) makes the decisions to have things like sports day, science days, trips, parents evenings and worst of all plays. To most teachers these things are just added stresses to an already crazy and stressful job. They take up extra time we could be planning lessons or doing data. Personally I think that we should stop doing these sorts of things, and definitely stop inviting the parents. It would mean I don’t have to sit and comfort little Johnny because no one could come to see him at sports day and then comfort little Ethel because her whole family came and now she wants to go home with them! If we just stopped doing these sorts of things we could just teach without distractions!

My DC school go full time from the start but they stagger the entry over a week, 10 start the first day and then 5 the next and so on based on date of birth so that by the end of the first week the whole cohort is in school.
However the reception kids can’t use the breakfast or after school club for the first week.

So today I forgot about non uniform day and the school phone me up and say "oh, can you please bring in some clothes for DS, he's a bit upset about being left out"

I'm sitting at my desk 5 miles away so no, I can't. Sorry son, I'll pay for therapy when you're older.

Urgh. They really do think mums don't work. Still annoyed, 10 hours later.

And yes, staggered starts are an absolute pain. I missed out on a family holiday in order to have enough leave to take for DS1's staggered starts. Luckily I was on mat leave for DS2's start but seeing his older brother go to school and being told, "no still at home for another week" did not make him happy!

Worriedaboutdog I feel your pain. Same situation here in Cambridge. DS has been in fulltime nursery since 11months of age and both DH and I are full time professionals. The school he starts at in Sept is also doing a phase in over 2 weeks. But the added kick in the teeth is that the breakfastclub and after school clubs have a 1 year waiting list. So really stuck with no one to help. I'm going to have to look into au pair as an option. We also got a letter about a 'home visit' recently. WTF is that about? I rang the school and said you're welcome to see my home, but I shall be at work and my son will be at nursery....so who is it you wish to see? Is this some undercover social services visit or something? I have now made an excel spreadsheet of all holiday clubs in the area which are already filling up fast! The government want to encourage women back into work but all these restrictions: short school day, inflexible working conditions, full nurseries and am/pm clubs with year long waiting lists daunts any working parent trying to pay the bills and mortgage.

Same at my school. It's ridiculous. My DD went from doing 8-6 at nursery to 9-12 at school and was bored rigid those two weeks and asking why she couldn't stay at school more!. And it's not all schools, other schools in my town don't I almost wish I'd known that before I selected!

@ miss Marple the Government is currently defending its free 30 hours early years education policy on the basis that it IS childcare. It's a ludicrous denial of reality ti suggest that disrupting the school week doesn't impact on the economy. My dd2 goes to nursery on my working days. She can't do that for the 6 weeks she's supposed to be at morning school. I'll have to find a nanny or take unpaid leave. It's a good job I'm not on the brink of losing my job or home as it could really tip the balance and in this day and age that is no fanciful scenario. Why is that in children's best interests? Why do people keep insisting it is? I haven't started dd2 at school nursery this year or she'd have to go through the whole thing twice.

For those who are saying that the school start hours for reception are not for the parents benefit, please remember that many parents don’t have family locally to help or jobs where you can take half days off work for several weeks. Insisting on full time from day one is the only option especially if you are using breakfast and after school clubs.

For children who have had several years in full time nursery; going to full time school isn’t a problem but actually a benefit as the routine is the same.

"they are not interested in your childcare arrangements" is harsh though, when they're the ones causing this aggro. My own work are more considerate than that. Many teachers are working parents themselves. It's not impossible to work out a system that doesn't cause so much grief. Some schools manage it.

If these staggered starts were truly researched and documented as being the 'best' way for Reception children to start school, every single school would be doing it exactly the same and it would be government policy.

It's not.

What IS government policy is that schools MUST allow children who are starting school in September after their 4th birthday to go full time from the 1st day of term. End of.

As I posted on the other thread this week:

webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160808140848/www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/484942/Office-of-the-Schools-Adjudicator-annual-report-September-2014-to-August-2015.pdf

2015 support paragraph 62:

The Code at paragraph 2.16 requires schools to make provision to admit children full-time from 1 September after their fourth birthday. Those children born between 1 September and 31 December reach compulsory school age of 5 years old at the beginning of the term after 1 January and for those born between 1 January and 31 March this is the beginning of the term after 1 April. Until a child reaches compulsory school age parents may choose to delay the admission of their child and/or their child can attend part-time. Paragraph 2.16 makes clear that it is for the parents to decide whether their child attends school prior to reaching compulsory school age and if so, whether attendance is full or part-time. Schools must make full-time provision available from the beginning of the autumn term of the school year in which the child reaches compulsory school age, the September following the child’s fourth birthday. The OSA has again had queries from parents about their child’s right to a full-time place. Some schools provide an induction period such that it appears schools dictate the sessions for which children can and cannot attend school, including setting requirements that contravene a parent’s right to full or part-time or deferred schooling contrary to the requirements of the Code.

Basically, the school wouldn't be doing you a 'favour' by accommodating you and your Reception Child. They'd be doing what they are mandated by law to do. Schools need to stop fucking working parents around, especially teachers! And children! Parents work! Many, many children have being going to nurseries/preschools/childminders since they were much younger than Reception age.

This is why we chose a school that didn’t have this carry on. Only difference is that reception start one day later than the rest of the school. They really seem to appreciate that parents work and don’t take the piss.
IME (and as a trained teacher) there is zero reason for the staggering. It’s a hangover from the days when most children had SAHMs and didn’t have experience of full time education and so it likely came as a bit of a shock. Both of mine have been in half days since two, and full days since three (length of school day, not until 6). Parents work, the world has moved on. They’d find it ridiculous if I told them they had to leave at lunchtime!
Insist he goes full time from day one, OP. You’re not being that parent, you’ve moved with the times, as I expect many others have. There’s also an irony in that many DC go to camp over the summer for full days anyway. To then drop to 9-12 when they’re at ‘big school’ is the absolute opposite of what being big and grown up is meant to be about!

I suggest you go into the school and talk to the Head. Tell them you will be exercising your right to have your child start school full time on the first day of term.

I would also alert other parents of your intention. Many may join you.

@WowLookAtYou how do you conclude that ‘regular hours are kept’ when staggered starts are exactly that - a mix of ad-hoc arrangements that are not, by definition, the regular hours of the school?

As for ‘always had a staggered start’, not true as you can see by the varied experiences shared here and as for it being ‘for good reasons’, well that’s a matter of opinion/your child’s needs. plus as I previously mentioned, there is no good evidence that a staggered start is beneficial in any way shape or form. If it were so, every school would do it and do it in the same way.

My daughter's normal full time school timings are 730-1230. We live overseas. It is indeed a nightmare for the working parent...