To wonder how the heck schools expect working parents to cope with this?

[Worriedaboutdog]

Apologies this may be a rant. DS1 is due to start school in September. We have therefore put childcare plans in place based on him starting school on the first day of term in September. School have just announced that:

a) reception start a week later
And
b) as a summer birthday, DS actually will do half days for another week after that, and ‘must be picked up at 1.30pm’.

No mention of either of these things was made when we looked round the school. We have already juggled the time off we have available to look after him over the summer. As it happens it’s probably easier for us than most parents as DH is a shift worker so can cover some days, but we were relying on him going to school at the beginning of September, and being in after-school club on days DH isn’t at home until I can get there to pick him up. Wtf are parents who both work Monday-Friday meant to do about two extra weeks?! This was all announced today in a meeting (I couldn’t go, because it was at 3.30pm, but DH did), and when he asked the class teacher if they had to go home at lunchtime or could stay and then go to after school club, she said they had to go home and we’d have to get ‘a grandparent or someone’ to pick them up. So we’ll just magic up a grandparent physically fit and willing enough to do a whole week of half days childcare, who is actually able to drive to the school, then.

He can possibly go back to his current nursery for the week he isn’t in school at all, but the half days are stumping me. I think I probably am being unreasonable to be cross - I realise school is not designed to be childcare, and therefore not run for the convenience of the parents, BUT they must know that parents make assumptions (based on the information on their website!) about the dates of terms and the length of the school day, and make arrangements accordingly. And that this just isn’t feasible for everyone, and if they don’t bloody tell you about it until June then plans (and budgets) for September childcare are already in place! Argh.

Actually just to add to the informal survey, DD's School did staggered starts for a week, which stopped before DS started. He just went full time.

Both settled in without any problems.

Staggered starts are really commonplace and have been for decades but having taught reception here and abroad I actually think they're a bit unnecessary. I would rather get them in full time from the beginning but on the understanding that they can go and loll in the book corner if they need it, or parents can keep them home sometimes if needed.
Children in most of Europe go full time from before they are 3 and it works fine in my experience. Just so long as they have space to chill in the classroon.

Again, I don't want to come across as unfeeling or unaware of peoples' individual circumstances, but there is a prevailing mood that looking after kids is someone else's responsibility while both parents go out to work.

Some are fortunate enough to have family or friends or nanny/carer, etc, that help them to do that, others are not. But it's ultimately the parents responsibility to look after their kids, and they have to cut their cloth accordingly, same as everyone else.

If that means part-time work, fewer holidays, a smaller house, a rougher area, etc, I'm afraid that's life.

I was told by DS1s reception teacher that 'parents who work are selfish' and really it was my fault that DS wasn't settling in.
As it turned out it was the stupid half days that he didn't like and once they finished he was happy he wasn't missing out. He only ever complained if I came to pick him up early from after school club as I interrupted him playing with his friends. He still really likes school now and he's almost finished primary now.
The irony was his teacher (who clearly was working everyday at his school) had young kids of her own!

Again, glovepuppet, working parents are fully aware of this.

What takes more time to be aware of is a decision by the School which is rarely advertised that the standard school day will not apply for a period to be decided by that School at their discretion. This does not comply with the law, each school does it differently and many don't do it at all.

While this is fine for children with SAHMs, grandparents or nannies, it is very difficult for parents who have used nurseries because those nurseries will not have the facilities to collect or drop children at school. As nurseries are the most popular form of ore school childcare, this means that children are having to get used to a short term mishmash if different arrangements.

As this coincides with the government requirement to work full time of lose benefits, this decision by some schools can be pretty unhelpful. Presumably why a lot of schools don't now bother.

@LaurieMarlow

I work two days in order for me to be available for my children "at the drop of a hat". I claim child tax credits and working tax credits (for three children) as my others are older.
My partner is not the father of my children and he pays gas, electric and rent for our house. He works from home with his own business and can take time off for school events as he pleases.
I pay for all the insurances, food, household items, clothes and pets.
I am skint at the end of every month but I see my children so I am happy.

@Phiney but you choose to miss out on your sports days by taking that sort of job.

I deliberately work two days a week

So you either have a DH/DP ALOT of money if you can afford six children and only work two days a way OR you have relied on benefits? Nothing to feel smug about.

MissBartlettsconscience

"As this coincides with the government requirement to work full time of lose benefits, this decision by some schools can be pretty unhelpful."

People can work part-time if they want - no law against that. And why is there an expectation that our taxes should be going in benefits to those who have made life-choices they can't manage?

That's the mood I was talking about - parents somehow thinking they have some special right to expect what those of us who chose not to have kids consider unfair or unreasonable.

It's about taking responsibility - we can't necessarily "have it all" no matter how much that is pedalled as possible in TV, books, mags, etc.

In my kids school it's 12 pick up till Halloween half term to give them time to settle

I pay for all the insurances, food, household items, clothes and pets.

Mainly paid for by benefits i.e. tax payers rather than yourself.

'And why is there an expectation that our taxes should be going in benefits to those who have made life-choices they can't manage?'

I don't know. Why don't you ask Sugar?

It just seems counter productive to have a legal requirement to use full time education and then almost be barred from doing so by a decision by the School on no legal justification and which isn't in the best interests of many if the children.

Slightly pissed off with my ds's school too. Took first week of school off work as was expecting staggered starts. They have now announced that actually reception will probably be starting a week later but they're not entirely sure. .... fortunately it's only two days of staggered starts and with my non -working days only meant one day extra off. But am now probably wasting a weeks leave, as have no childcare for that week as already had to give notice at nursery. Of course they could just decide to switch the start date back again so can't even make plans for that week.... ..

Dungeondragon I claim tax credits, so what? I'd rather see my children grow up than look back at their childhood and know I'd missed it because I was always at work.

When my youngest gets to senior school I will up my hours.

Oh sheesh glovepuppet being a responsible parent is not the same as accepting every ill thought out decision that someone in authority tries to impose. If your employer arbitrarily decided they wanted you to go to work topless from here on in would you just suck it up? No, cos the decision doesn’t make sense. The debate should be about costs and benefits. Having a child doesn’t mean you surrender your right to question what happens to them when the decisions seem somewhat arbitrary.

Sorry if anyone else has asked op, but could you use a childminder? They're not for everyone, but if you manage to find a really good one they're worth their weight in gold. From memory, when ds started school, I took a couple of days of leave but worked part time hours for a week so I could drop him off and pick him up - and on the 2nd week, our cm took him. He settled in fine and by the third day thought it was odd that I was taking him and picking him up - he wanted his cm to take him with his friends! Made me feel a bit redundant tbh, but I'd rather that than tears and upset. I was always put off after school clubs, they always seem really busy and I think children need to calm down and relax after school. For me, a childminding environment was perfect in lieu of our own home.

My message is don’t worry - send them full time from day one and you’ll find that many/majority are doing the same. It’s worth raising at any meetings you go to before term starts.

The point about small children starting school, they will always finish earlier than the older classes, 2pm is the usual time for the first 3 years around here, so you are always going to have to arrange pick up from school unless you are working part time, the children are never going to be in school until 5.30/6pm. to facilitate your 9-5 working parent! when i have been at the school pick up there are always childcare providers picking up several children to provide afterschool care for them.

If you don't have people to help with afterschool then you arrange daycare to pick them up.

Dungeondragon I claim tax credits, so what? I'd rather see my children grow up than look back at their childhood and know I'd missed it because I was always at work.

It seems to be all about you rather than your children. Your children may have preferred it if you had worked more hours and had more money, particularly the older ones. Regardless, I think deliberately not working and relying on benefits to make up the difference is nothing to be proud of.

So much missing the point here. blueSap you are conflating provision of wrap around care (not what the OP posted about) with ad-hoc child care needs that arise as a consequence of staggered starts (what the OP posted about). They are not the same thing.

Our after school club put on longer hours - half the kids did mornings and half did afternoons & they worked around it.

Yanbu and it's rubbish. They should go in full days from day 1. We certainly did when I started school. Reception is basically play anyway, it's fine.
And yes, teachers will parrot the "school is not childcare" line, but actually school was made universal for the children of workers (that's us) after they brought in laws to stop them working in factories and they had to go somewhere when their parents were at work.
Also, the government wants parents to work (and penalises single mothers who don't) so it's a bit rich if it's made this hard-especially for single parents with no magic grandparents!

I don't 'choose' to miss my DD's sports days - it's a side effect of the fact that I am using my skills and education to educate other people's children (part time and having taken a massive pay cut in order to try to get a bit less pressure on our family life).

This is such a stupid debate because it always turns into women against women and judging each other for our choices. There are rarely any men debating this because it simply doesn't impinge on their lives in the same way and meanwhile the gender pay continues merrily on.

Also, staggered starts are connected to wrap around because a school that behaves as though parents exist purely for their convenience is unlikely to have an enlightened attitude to wrap around. Because if they don't care that we and our DC are stressed and inconvenienced, they don't care - it's unlikely to just be a one-off at the start of the school career...

lozster

"Having a child doesn’t mean you surrender your right to question what happens to them when the decisions seem somewhat arbitrary."

No, but it does mean accepting that when schools make judgements they may be making them with the best interests of the school, the teachers and the kids in mind, not just the parents, and also for the whole school - 200, 300, 400 pupils - not just one set of parents.

Most parents chose their kids' school on the basis of good reports and league table standing, so presumably the school must be doing something well to achieve those results. Perhaps their methodology, although "inconvenient" for a few days, might actually be best practice for the children?

If the delayed starts were proven to be best practice for children, then every school should be doing them, every school should be doing the same, and they should be advertised from when the places are allocated.

Not all schools do them at all (and a wide range of schools - most private schools don't) so there doesn't seem to be a proven benefit for anyone, just that this is the way it has always been done, which doesn't reflect changes in society.