To wonder how the heck schools expect working parents to cope with this?

[Worriedaboutdog]

Apologies this may be a rant. DS1 is due to start school in September. We have therefore put childcare plans in place based on him starting school on the first day of term in September. School have just announced that:

a) reception start a week later
And
b) as a summer birthday, DS actually will do half days for another week after that, and ‘must be picked up at 1.30pm’.

No mention of either of these things was made when we looked round the school. We have already juggled the time off we have available to look after him over the summer. As it happens it’s probably easier for us than most parents as DH is a shift worker so can cover some days, but we were relying on him going to school at the beginning of September, and being in after-school club on days DH isn’t at home until I can get there to pick him up. Wtf are parents who both work Monday-Friday meant to do about two extra weeks?! This was all announced today in a meeting (I couldn’t go, because it was at 3.30pm, but DH did), and when he asked the class teacher if they had to go home at lunchtime or could stay and then go to after school club, she said they had to go home and we’d have to get ‘a grandparent or someone’ to pick them up. So we’ll just magic up a grandparent physically fit and willing enough to do a whole week of half days childcare, who is actually able to drive to the school, then.

He can possibly go back to his current nursery for the week he isn’t in school at all, but the half days are stumping me. I think I probably am being unreasonable to be cross - I realise school is not designed to be childcare, and therefore not run for the convenience of the parents, BUT they must know that parents make assumptions (based on the information on their website!) about the dates of terms and the length of the school day, and make arrangements accordingly. And that this just isn’t feasible for everyone, and if they don’t bloody tell you about it until June then plans (and budgets) for September childcare are already in place! Argh.

Nice that the (mostly female) primary teachers also get the blame when they are unlikely to have any input into their school policies.

The policy at DD's school was put in place by the (new) head of foundation stage who was the reception teacher so I think it fair enough to blame the teacher. She was female but didn't have children.

YANBU by the way

I think what sticks in my throat is the way that a decision that should be based on logic and evidence (what’s the value added traded off against the problems it brings to parents AND the child) rapidly turns in to some sort of test of morality or commitment to education and your child.

I don’t want to be ‘that’ parent
You need to be 'that' parent if you don't want the school walking all over you.

MissMarple I don't think it's cost (although there is no doubt an issue with viability in places where the take up would be low and some schools certainly have an issue with space). The holiday care at DD's school is run by a local business. They are not a charity. They get fantastic uptake and the sessions are always well attended.

Where there's a will there's a way and schools simply don't see this as their problem and why would they - if they're getting away with not fulfilling their responsibility to provide full time education to Reception children why on earth would they take on all the hassle of organising effective wrap around?

The main practical issue as I see it is it is near to impossible to get this information in time to make sensible life decisions because i) you may not know there is information you need to know and ii) schools do not communicate it plus of course iii) schools vary wildly in their policies, organisation/communication but you don't find this out until you're already committed.

I've read through the entire thread and in my opinion it seems that a lot of you see your children as an inconvenience.

When mine were young (I have 6 plus a step daughter) Autumn born babies did full time within two weeks, and the Winter/early Spring children went full time in October and the Summer born started full time after the Christmas break.

Then your have plays, picnics, parents evenings, trips, special assemblies and sports days where parents are expected to attend. And yes children do scan the sea of faces for their family member's face, and yes they are disappointed if nobody is there.
I deliberately work two days a week because I refuse to miss out on my children's lives. I am qualified and could easily get a full time job with better pay. Your babies are only young once and you won't ever get those years back. Blink and your "baby" is suddenly 22 (my eldest son).

I am certainly not arguing that there are not some individuals in education who are actively making this more difficult for parents. I've met a few of them!

To be fair it's hard for people without children or much imagination to understand just what a mega hassle this all is, but I don't think there's much excuse for people actually working in the education sector.

That's hilarious SugarIsAmazing, I don't see my DD as an inconvenience. Just out of interest, if your DC had been at my school and I missed out teaching them multiple lessons for their A level because I was at a 5 year old's assembly, sports day, picnic etc might you see me as a bit of an inconvenience though?

As a single mum with no support I fully appreciate how difficult this is, however it is completely standard.

It was even the case when I started school in 1985.

At my school they did half days over a week and a half and my DS went to a childminder who could accommodate this.

@SugarIsAmazing judgy much? Many parents would love to devote their whole lives to their children but inconvenient things like putting food on the table gets in the way.

It's smug posts like yours that pits working parents against SAHPs and we don't need that.

Children are not an inconvenience, they're a joy. Which is why I like to spend time with them in half terms and holidays rather than putting them in holiday club because all my annual leave has been dictated by the school!

I work part time too by the way. It still means that I actually have to be in work for those hours, so I can't be at the class concert at 11am on a Wednesday morning.

These arrangements are pretty standard across all schools, but i mean why would you arrange childcare without first getting confirmation from the school about the start date and pick up times and that sort of thing?

I haven't read the whole thread but if you are using childcare provider who has experience surly they would've known that this is how the start of school works for every child?

Sorry, as a non-parent, this kind of thing annoys me. As you point out, schools are not creches, and I think more parents should think more about these things when they are bringing up their kids.

That's by-the-by though. As a possible solution, could you not take any holiday or negotiate some unpaid leave? That would be what I was expected to do if I had non-work related issues to contend with, such as an unwell parent.

@SugarIsAmazing How patronising. I would love to work part time, but unfortunately I have to put food on the table and keep a roof over our head.

I so far have managed to go to all school activities but it is very difficult to juggle and I am very, very lucky to have an understanding boss.

MissMarplesKnitting

*I think half the issue is that schools simply cannot afford to provide the wraparound care private schools can.

If the government want working parents they need to fund the schools properly to provide this.

Schools are mostly skint. Really skint.*

This doesn’t really relate to the issue of staggered starts does it? What has been pointed out numerous times is that expecting parents to access out of hours childcare Is reasonable when the school hours are regular. Expecting parents (and childcare providers) to cover ad-hoc irregular hours is not reasonable.

Your post suggests that wrap around care is a drain on school resources. This is not the case. It is frequently provided on site by third parties (ie private, profit making companies). I’d be surprised if the margins were great however there must be money to be made otherwise the headmaster at my school wouldn’t be trying to take it back in house and the third party wouldn’t be keen to carry on. I am aware that some schools do offer breakfasts clubs etc for welfare reasons and may subside but the driver there isn’t helping out working parents.

Ha ha sugar
Lucky you bring in a position you decide to work 2 days a week and still be able to raise 7 children.
Surely you are not so ignorant to know that most people are not in that position.

I’m not convinced that pussyfooting around the ‘legal entitlement’ does anyone any favours.

Telling a school it’s difficult for you and asking “could they have your DC earlier please?” Is likely to be dismissed.

For each school that mucks about like this, just one parent needs to request that they adhere to the law. That would really help all the parents who follow and would find a staggered start difficult.

Blue, respectfully, there is nothing standard at all about the English education sector. All sorts of things vary wildly by area and even individual school. Unless you ask, you don't know and if you don't know to ask...

I do know what you are saying and as a slight paranoid, planner ahead type I wouldn't have made that error either but I have spent so much of the last 5 years trying to sort out (sensible, well-educated) friends who were literally clueless about all this...

Something else to bear in mind is that a lot of parents of young DC in the UK are foreign-born so don't even have their own experience of the UK school system to draw on.

in my opinion it seems that a lot of you see your children as an inconvenience

That is pretty unfair. If you work, it's very difficult to deal with part-time schooling when you've had full day care or full school day care beforehand. I assume you don't have to work, but don't have a go at those of us (the majority) who need to work to eat and have a roof over our heads.

I posted on the other thread this week, yes it's a pain in the arse!

When DS started Reception five years ago they didn't start until the second week of term, then they did a week of mornings only, followed by a week of afternoons only. Two weeks after he finally started full time it was half term!

The school only told parents about the staggered start in July, by which time DH and I had booked our family holidays and annual leave for the year.

The following year the school didn't stagger the start at all so no, it's not standard practice everywhere

Exacgtly loz, we left home today behind a neighbour I don't usually see. They are 2 doctors, recently moved near us with 3 young children. They left the house at 7.50 (one parent did) with a 5 year old. They dropped him at the private school at end of our road and he ran in happily - an external lady runs the before and after school club our twins used (no cost to the school)l; boy ran in and mother or father drove on to the hospital for the day. club ends at 6pm so I presume the parents work out between them which will collect him or if they have someone for the baby that person does it.

I think more parents should think more about these things when they are bringing up their kids

As I pointed out above, schools all have different policies. I didn't even know this was a thing before I started looking at schools and even if I had, we moved between having our son and his starting school so even if we'd known what our local school did, we would not have known what the school we were allocated did and they change their policy every year too.

Some schools don't bother at all, everyone is FT from the start (especially in the private sector).

Welcome to the next 8 years op. It's a nightmare. The constant assumption that "someone" usually assumed To be mom, is always around at the drop of a hat with zero notice, will drive you insane.

It puzzles me a bit as presumably a large proportion of teachers and HTs are or have been working parents so know how hard it is. Yet still they assume mother is waiting at home to be told what to do. Maddening.

I deliberately work two days a week

And not everyone is in a position to do this, as you'd know if you had an ounce of imagination or empathy.

Incidentally, can you support your family on your 2 days a week? Or do you leave that responsibility to your DP?

I think that most do staggered starts as it has always been done

Not when I was at school.

My DD was a young one so when she started 10 years ago it was miss the first week of term, go afternoons for a week, then have a week of mornings, then a week of mornings and stay for lunch then pick her up, and then finally it went full time.