to wonder why anyone votes tory?

[traciebanbanjo]

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

The stupidity of people who believe that 'scroungers' are the cause of this country's problems!
Go and check the figures ffs!!
Complaining about benefits but not giving a shit about greedy corporations and multi millionaires avoiding tax?
Not caring that our public services are being destroyed.
Thinking profit for the rich is more important than peoples rights, working conditions, health and welfare, affordable homes.
Carry on the way we are and eventually it will impact on you.

If you want to know why working class people vote Tory, study Antonio Gramsci on cultural hegemony.

There’s some serious hypocrisy going on here, as well as revisionism.

If you’re talking about New Labour and the economy, get your facts straight:
www.economicshelp.org/blog/7568/debt/government-debt-under-labour-1997-2010/

If you’re talking about whether labour or the tories are fiscally responsible, get your facts straight:
www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

So much parroting of propaganda, so little knowledge of the facts.

@TammySwansonTwo - which is an argument any half decent Labour leader could make. But this "useful idiot" is not even half way suitable to lead the party.

airbuiscuits

Take the prize for the most sensible and correct post on the thread. You are 100% right. Never seen it put so well.

I find it fascinating what people can deflect away on to Corbyn, he’s quite the bogeyman, apparently! Prove that what’s being spouted is bollocks? Errr... it’s Corbyn’s fault.

I’m not overly surprised - the media did a bang up job of making him out to be the enemy, deliberately not covering positive things, trying to dig up any dirt they could find and, when they couldn’t, making ridiculous stretches (do people forget that Thatcher was actually lifelong friends with General Pinochet?).

And yet despite all this, people did vote labour - almost as many as voted Tory. And that’s with so many people not voting labour because they were supposedly unelectable

cerry on the way we are and it will eventually impact on you

It impacts everyone if there is no credible electable alternative to any government.

I honestly can’t inderstand posters like you and Tammy printing links and handwringing over the disabled and the poor while you seem to support s leader you know is unelectable.

Get rid of him. Make labour a credible party again. You are preaching to the wrong people. Look at yourselves and who you voted for. I voted for Yvette cooper and have now left the party.

I am one of many many old labour voters. It’s you who are to blame for the tories going on and on.

You and momentum! Just like militant tendency helped thatcher stay in power by ruining the Labour Party.

Think look at history.

"Also, seems to me that most Labour voters can't do basic maths with the finances and have this belief that someone richer will pay more"

That's utterly disingenuous.

You know most other European countries have higher rates of tax than the UK?

I agree with Tammy, lots of propaganda, very little facts.

This is half of the problem with this debate, only some of us are using facts.

Why in your eyes @TammySwansonTwo does despising Corbyn = being a Tory and/or loving Thatcher.? I can only assume you are very young and don't know your history very well.

Auntiebasil, you are one of the ones very guilty of not using facts, here.

That’s interesting, because I’m one of the few people who has posted actual facts rather than spewing spurious anecdata.

Under the current system, with only two parties having a shot at leading the country, if you don’t support Labour you are supporting the Tories. It’s really very simple. I’m neither young nor ignorant of history, thanks.

But hey, I’m sure the tories are just decent people doing their best right? Oh wait, what’s this news story from today... www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/ailing-mp-wheeled-into-commons-in-pyjamas-criticises-tory-whips?CMP=fb_gu

So much parroting of propaganda, so little knowledge of the facts.

Says the person who links a Richard Muprhy blog piece...

It is still quite biased, it doesn't mention the reasons for higher borrowing in the 1980's as part of the IMF bail out, and to be fair the first year of every new Gov at least should be excluded from the data sample or attributed to the previous Gov, this just seems like a lot of P-hacking.

The Tories have a reputation for coming into Gov after Labour have wrecked the economy, this is disputable, however when Thatcher came to power the economy wasn't in a good place and the same is true for Cameron whilst the economy was doing quite well in 1997 which make up one of the longest periods of Labour Gov (they also carried on the Conservative spending policies for the first 3 years).

It should also be pointed out that despite Osborne failing to pay down the deficit he did re-service all the debt and now the UK's debt interest payments are the lowest as a percentage of GDP in anyone's living memory.

So in short the tax research piece is of statistical significance and just you're kind of propaganda

fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

I honestly can’t inderstand posters like you and Tammy printing links and handwringing over the disabled and the poor while you seem to support s leader you know is unelectable.

Handwringing? I’m disabled. My son is disabled. I’m not handwringing. I do wonder how people can be lacking in such basic humanity.

And no, I know nothing of the sort. 40% of the vote, to 42.4% for the tories. Unelectable? Didn’t work a few years ago, definitely won’t work next time. You need to try something else.

What facts would those be that I am "guilty " of ignoring?

Jesus Christ.

Look at what austerity has done to the GDP in the first place.

Did you even look at the link you just posted?!

for most Tory voters, it's dislike of scroungers that is at the heart of it.

I don’t agree with this.

Over the last couple of GE, there has been a general ‘theme’ from the Labour camp that the country is divided into the ‘wealthy’ and the ‘rest’. The wealthy makes up the top, say, 5% whereas everyone else is in the ‘rest’ category. The ‘rest’ are struggling, massively. They are LP, elderly, disabled or - if lucky enough to have a job - are on slave wages and reliant on top-ups from tax credits. The ‘rest’ are all at the mercy of slum-landlords unless they are in social housing.

Now, I’m sure that there are many people (including posters on here) for whom the ‘rest’ look just like that. I guess it all depends on where you live and the makeup of your peer group.

There are vast swathes of the country where the ‘rest’ just aren’t like that. The Labour Party is never, ever going to win an election unless it can appeal more to the real ‘rest’.

My peer group is made up of people from all different economic groups. Some are University educated, some in trades and some in lower management/supervisory roles. Some have long term disabilities and illnesses - for which some are claiming PIP. For most of them the last couple of Labour manifestos are not appealing. So, they’re going to build a lot more social housing. With what money? This is never going to be a vote-winner for those who will never be eligible for social housing (and probably wouldn’t want it) regardless of how much is built. Free tuition fees? The vast majority aren’t stupid enough to think this was any more than a students-vote-grab. The list of unappealing policies goes on.

If Labour wants to win a GE, it needs to convince the floating voter, or a good proportion of the ‘rest’ to vote for them. While it, and its most vocal supporters, have absolutely no idea what the ‘rest’ are actually like, they have no chance.

I say this as a floating voter who can’t find a political ‘home’ with any of the current parties.

Hope that isn't to me @TammySwansonTwo . I haven't posted any links.

So the Strivers vsSkivers rhetoric used by the Tories in 2010-2015 didn't happen?

I'm not a Tory voter. I don't listen to bollocks about Skivers vs Strivers or whatever. What makes you think I do, just because I think Corbyn is a useless Labour leader?

If you think everyone who despises Corbyn is a Tory, you need to grow up a bit.

Never said that, strawman.

The top 10% is anyone who earns around £55k or over, according to national statistics from 2016:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/685507/NS_Table_3_1a_1516.xlsx

The top 5% are not millionaires, which shows you how low the average income is

Oooo. Big talk. I'm feel so defeated by your incisive wit.

So, they’re going to build a lot more social housing. With what money?

Seriously, do people not read the news any more?
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/help-to-buy-affordable-housing-funding-divert-property-market-buyers-sajid-javid-a8233011.html