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AIBU?

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Come off it Cancer Research UK

244 replies

Noviceoftheweek · 15/06/2018 14:33

So now women aren't even mentioned in cervical screening awareness activity. To quote Cancer Research UK: "cervical screening (or the smear test) is relevant for everyone aged 25-64 with a cervix."

I despair, I really do.

OP posts:
The3 · 15/06/2018 16:01

I have to admit I find some of the language confusing here, and when people have transitioned to a different gender (or is it sex?Confused) I am not sure which words are normal and fine and which will cause hurt and offence (so I just stick to their names as individuals.) Can I please reiterate that I hope the words I am using are not offensive.

I think it’s super that Cancer Research are reaching out to people in this situation and I hope that while they target this sort of advice towards people in this situation, they continue to produce mass-market advice which makes it clear to women that they need to be tested.

Lilyhatesjaz · 15/06/2018 16:02

I don't have a cervix but I still received a letter telling me to go for cervical screening. Maybe the wording is to stop women like me being screened unnecessarily

user1499173618 · 15/06/2018 16:04

Anyone with breasts
Everyone with a vagina
People with a cervix

We don’t use language this way to address women if we want their attention and want to make them feel looked after and ourselves trustworthy.

Magpiesarehuge · 15/06/2018 16:05

- not all women have cervixes and they shouldn't be made to feel like they are lesser or somehow not real women because they don't have cervixes. So I think it's a good thing to step away from campaigns saying 'cervical screening is relevant for all woman aged between X and Y'. Not only is that statement not true, it's actually hurtful to some women.

Does that actually happen? Are women who don’t menstruate or have had hysterectomies or mastectomies- are they really that sensitive and get distraught that its generally accepted and expected that women have periods, breasts, cervixes etc? I’m going through the he menopause - I’m i suddenly going to be upset, even outraged when i see tampon adverts?

And agree that relying on “cervix” to alert women and get their attention, could pass over the head of more women than the numbers of transmen and non binary folk who might feel left out.

Is the language regarding testicles, penises and prostrates being changed as well?

I guess the school curriculum in sex education and biology etc will have to be amended as well to replace any old fashioned ideas on what we previously thought regading each sex. So girls csn have penises, men can get pregnant etc.

Also, i imagine when babies are now born they shouldn’t be presumed to be boys or girls. All talk of boy, girl, non binary, gender fluid etc should wait till the child is old enough to identify their gender - because now there is no “norm” - no universal understanding of our accepted social structure.

Same goes with clothes, all children should wear state approved androgynous clothes till they are of an age to choose for themselves.

I’m not joking btw, if you buy into identity politics sterped in gender as the be all snd end all, then this is all the logical conclusion.

Sallystyle · 15/06/2018 16:06

YANBU at all OP.

It is ridiculous. great posts my NoSquirrels

NoSquirrels · 15/06/2018 16:06

All women between the age 25-64 is not helpful

Of these points
-May make some women who were born without a cervix or have had their cervix removed think they need the service
-May make transwomen think they are entitled to the service when they dont have a cervix
just means these people will ask for a smear and their GP will let them know it's not appropriate, and why (although I would wager most people in these groups will know damn full well for one reason or another that they don't need the service)

and
-May make women who dont have a cervix not feel like real women
I think this is unlikely with the original wording.

-May make transmen think they dont need the service despite having a cervix
-May discourage transmen from from using the service
These are really the same point in a way, about transmen. And that can be addressed as a specific action campaign aimed at that demographic, or with specific wording as babel suggested above.

PolkerrisBeach · 15/06/2018 16:11

I am a woman. Not a cis-woman. A woman. I don't have a cervix because it was removed. I therefore fall into the category of "not got a cervix so don't need a smear".

But it is illogical to argue that there are men with a cervix. A biological impossibility. Just as women don't have a penis or testicles. Women need smears. Men don't.

Don't mix up biological SEX with ideas about gender identity. I can identify as whatever I want, but I'm still female.

Magpiesarehuge · 15/06/2018 16:13

have to admit I find some of the language confusing here, and when people have transitioned to a different gender (or is it sex?confused) I am not sure which words are normal and fine and which will cause hurt and offence (so I just stick to their names as individuals.) Can I please reiterate that I hope the words I am using are not offensive.

You are supposed to be nervous and confused.

user1499173618 · 15/06/2018 16:13

Quite apart from anything else, I just don’t trust organisations who address me quite so offensively.

PolkerrisBeach · 15/06/2018 16:16

Are women who don’t menstruate or have had hysterectomies or mastectomies- are they really that sensitive and get distraught that its generally accepted and expected that women have periods, breasts, cervixes etc?

As exactly that woman - one who used to have a cervix but has it no longer - I was delighted to be able to ring the GP when I got my reminder for a smear and tell them it wasn't needed!

SoddingUnicorns · 15/06/2018 16:18

@PolkerrisBeach so was my mum, she chortled down the phone to the receptionist that she could be removed from the list since her cervix was long since incinerated!

heresyandwitchcraft · 15/06/2018 16:18

YANBU. At all.

NoSquirrels · 15/06/2018 16:21

To be honest, though, I find other adverts and messages Cancer Research have put out questionable. I remember being particularly pissed off at a fundraising poster which showed a woman who'd lost her hair due to chemo, where the strapline was "This could be YOUR mother - donate now" and I thought that was in spectacularly poor taste for anyone whose mother was already suffering or worse, had died from cancer. It made me really angry at the time, and I complained. So I don't think much of their copywriters, frankly.

BeyondSceptical · 15/06/2018 16:21

I would suggest...

Who needs a smear?
Anyone born female who has not had their cervix removed

soapboxqueen · 15/06/2018 16:24

beyond plenty transwomen argue that they are female and always have been. I would assume the same would be said for Transmen eg always male.

SoddingUnicorns · 15/06/2018 16:25

Who needs a smear?
Anyone born female who has not had their cervix removed

This!

user1499173618 · 15/06/2018 16:25

Beyond - your wording is technically correct but does it actually speak to its intended audience? I don’t relate to “anyone born female”. I relate to “women”. And I find any suggestion of mainstream female spaces prioritising trans agendas incredibly offensive and untrustworthy. In fact, I would instantly boycott any organisation I felt was doing so.

SoddingUnicorns · 15/06/2018 16:27

In fact, I would instantly boycott any organisation I felt was doing so

You would decline a potentially life saving test because of semantics? Then you’re a fucking idiot.

user1499173618 · 15/06/2018 16:28

Cancer Research isn’t going to perform my smear test.

heresyandwitchcraft · 15/06/2018 16:29

This has been discussed on the feminism board as well.

Some of the points I made there:

A VICE article about the Eve appeal survey

In a recent survey of 1,000 British women, 44 percent were unable to identify the vagina on a medical illustration of the female reproductive tract. Even fewer were able to identify the vulva, with 60 percent failing at this task. Overall, only one third of the women questioned could correctly place the six labels—vulva, vagina, cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries—on the diagram.
...
"The lack of basic knowledge about the female body is extremely worrying," Tracie Miles, a specialist gynecological cancer information Nurse at the Eve Appeal, said in a press release. "How can we expect women to know what to look out for in terms of unexpected changes in their vagina or vulva, or to be aware of the signs and symptoms of a gynecological cancer if they're not body-aware?"

As a woman, I find it dreadful to have my ability to refer to myself as my own sex erased. I want a collective noun that describes my female biology as a whole, as a person of my sex, especially in medical contexts that refer to reproductive organs where this actually matters! Woman has always worked adequately. I have no way of seeing my uterus or cervix, as they are internal organs, so how can I know if I am a "uterus-bearer" or "cervix-haver"? Equally, I think it's dehumanising. I wouldn't want men to be referred to as "vas deferens-havers" or "people with seminal vescicles."

Do I object to "chair-person?" No, because taking on the role of chair has nothing to do with biology, so there is little need to point out reproductive differences in this terminology.

Do I object to "ovary-bearer"? Yes. Because then you're referring specifically to the female sex, likely for reasons that have to do with female biology as a whole, but using language that reduces me to an organ and making things needlessly convoluted. How do I know I have ovaries? It's not like I can just look down and check...

The half of the population who need to come for screening tests was born female. I have never seen a collected group of women who have had hysterectomies protest against the use of the word woman! Because they know this is more important than being included or excluded by terminology!

If I have to compromise then "women and other people with cervixes" will be acceptable.

We have a perfectly good word, "woman," to denote adult human females.

This is just over-complicating everything!

user1499173618 · 15/06/2018 16:29

Boycott Cancer Research = not donate

TakeawayTakeMeAway · 15/06/2018 16:31

"who has not had their cervix removed"

It's quite possibly just me but this makes me feel a bit like it's entirely likely that my cervix will be removed in the future Hmm. It's just a bit too close for comfort. Similarly:

"who has not had their breasts removed"

On the other hand, while
"who has not had their tonsils removed" and
"who has not had their appendix removed" are still pretty clumsy, they don't sound as, well, offhand to me as the earlier two do.

Like I said, might be just me.

SoddingUnicorns · 15/06/2018 16:32

Boycott Cancer Research = not donate

Ah yes, removing money from finding a cure for cancer. How very noble. My previous point stands.

TakeawayTakeMeAway · 15/06/2018 16:32

44 percent were unable to identify the vagina

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

I'm really shocked. That says it all about how we view women's bodies and what we're teaching girls and women.

JFC.

UpstartCrow · 15/06/2018 16:34

All the people pretending its about inclusivity or clarity are ignoring the fact that on the page for prostate cancer they talk about men.

Not prostate havers. Or people with a prostate. Most trans women have a prostate.

www.prostate-cancer-research.org.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsbXu-_7V2wIV7bztCh2rxANwEAAYASAAEgJ4kPD_BwE

Its only women being treated this way.