To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

Tandt What is funny about rape and murder?

Awful
I always walked through parks late in south London. In hindsight I should have been more aware. I wouldn’t have done that in certain other countries late at night so it is silly to call it victim blaming to be alert to potential dangers.
Of course we can teach men about not raping women, but we also need to be practical and alert to the fact that not everyone has been educated in the same way, and some men have been brutalised to the extent that they think they can rape women.

The problem is that murderers are not generally concerned with political correctness. As much as I should be able to go anywhere at any time, if I am aware that there is a violent predator on the loose and operating in the area I live then I would rather avoid meeting them more than asserting my rights as a woman - however that does not mean that any victim of the predator is in any way to blame.

@platypuss

I’ll say it again more clearly as you are struggling.

I laughed out loud at what I thought WAS AN INTERPRETATION OF MY POST in a self deprecating manner, that I had worded it in such a way that the poster thought I was suggesting a blanket policy of testosterone checking. Ok?

No, still don't get it.

I will ask again more clearly What is funny about rape and murder?

TeasndToast, I got your lol and why.

However, honestly I'd be perfectly prepared to have my testosterone checked yearly for example to help prevent this kind of crime.

We test for lots of kinds of cancers as routine. The idea may actually have some merit if we can prove a link between the two.

Righto platypuss.

@bujinkhal, by the same token I could argue that I’m just a hormone away from committing a crime. You underestimate a good upbringing as if it’s only a tiny reason you don’t act on urges. I’m not sure I agree it’s just a ‘different type of person’ who commits these crimes. It’s often ordinary people with families, jobs etc.
You are right when you say it does affect men too in regards to wives, daughters, sisters etc but it’s indirect iyswim so there isn’t enough discussion between men about boundaries, consent etc.

Platypuss. I don’t know, why don’t you go and ask someone who was laughing at that?

Now DFOD

Good imitation you two but nobody is convinced.

To all the people who pop up on these threads and say "it's just common sense, wouldn't' you give the same advice to your daughter". Can you not see the difference? Of course I tell my daughter not to walk through the park on her own, and to sit near the driver if she is on a bus on her own etc. etc. There's a massive difference in saying something like that privately to a member of your family, and the police and other authorities coming out and saying publicly to everyone (basically) "women, stay indoors unless you are with a male". There are enough misogynists, men and women, out there and messages like this just absolutely reinforce the idea that somehow women ask for it, by their clothes, their behaviour, by walking home, by being in a cab etc. etc. I wish that, after this horrific event, the first thing that had been said was "Men, stay indoors until you can stop each other raping and murdering".

I am incredibly sad for this young woman and her family.

Bujinkhal I think that would be unfair on men and it would also need to include women with high levels. We can’t label ALL men as dangers as we see how those discussions go on here and we need men to be part of the solution.

So straight answer, why don’t you act upon urges? Is it respect for women? The belief that your rights don’t trump hers? Or just that the urge isn’t that strong?

Thymelord, me too, it is so desperately sad and awful that this young woman had her life ended in this brutal way.

There's a massive difference in saying something like that privately to a member of your family, and the police and other authorities coming out and saying publicly to everyone

I agree, I think that’s the crux of it. It’s the public vs private sphere of the conversations and who is having these conversations and in what context that is important.

Lighthouse - I take your point. I meant rather than we should be teaching women not to go out alone, etc. Probably bad choice of words. "Telling" is more appropriate but as you say, it shouldn't need to be taught.

It's not victim blaming to say be careful and consider what you're doing/where you're going any more than saying it's victim blaming teaching how to cross a road safely.

Yes, ideally we wouldn't need to consider whether it's safe to go out alone at night etc. but unfortunately there are people out there who make it unsafe.

Giving people (and yes, men as well as women) codes to follow if they are in an unsafe situation can save lives because when you're caught up in a situation you may not think clearly.

And I think it's as much on others to say "are you going on your own, wait for me in that case," or "let's get a taxi back" or similar as the person who actually does it.

I don’t agree that private and public discourse on safe behaviors should be different.

She was right, dead right as she strode along
But she's just as dead now as if she'd been wrong

Neither do I.

My comment was to user's, I have nothing to say to Carycach.

mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html

I think it’s high time we stopped thinking of this type of crime as a ‘female problem’. It is commited by men so it’s also a male problem.

Two things jumped out at me from this article. One is that the psychologist said she receives 10 papers on victims for every one she receives about a perpetrator.

The second is that the rapist will admit to ‘non consensual sex’ but never rape and that they almost exclusively ‘blame the victim’.

So there is already strong evidence that a victim blaming narrative from authorities after these types of crime, feeds into the image these types of criminals have about their crimes.

There is also a correlation between committing sexual offences as a child and raping women as an adult.

If the experts know this, why is the discussion still on women / women’s behaviour, from the authorities after such crimes.

@LighthouseSouth

surely a man who actually needs to be taught this has something faulty in the wiring in the first place?!

I suspect for rapes by strangers, such as this one, you're right but I also think there are probably more men than we'd like to think who could be taught that assumptions they make on dates or in relationships are wrong and that they need to behave differently.

To the posters saying we need to teach men not to rape.

Surely men know this is wrong. Its pretty basic to know not to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

The ones who do it just don't give a shit.

What next, do we need to teach burglers not to burgle, muggers not to mug etc?

Surely men know this is wrong. Its pretty basic to know not to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

Well the evidence suggests that offenders blame their victims for arousing them. So while it might be prudent to tell our girls in the private sphere, “don’t walk through a dark park, get a taxi” etc etc, what gets said publicly, by people in authority does appear to matter. Rapists really don’t need the authorities validating their behaviour.