To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

couple of me = couple of men

@trip

Did you even read what you posted? Or just fail to understand it?

@echt, you're incredibly uneducated. The law in the UK says that only men can rape but this is simply pragmatics. Lesbians are the most at risk group of sexual and physical abuse. Women prisoners are sexually assaulted by women far more than men prisoners are assaulted by men.Your ignorance does everyone a disservice. Among adults who reported sexual contact with prison staff, including some contact that prisoners call “willing” but that is often coercive and always illegal, 80 percent reported only female perpetrators. Among juveniles, the same figure is 89.3 percent*

You're talking prison, I'm talking the life outside, that would be the one that this thread is about, so stop derailing why don't you?

Deal with the stats about rape and murder of women outside prison.

Why is it on EVERY one of these threads, a bloke turns up with some dodgy newspaper articles, trying to prove that the sexual violence and murder of women happens to men and perpetrated by women in equal measure?

It’s as if our lived experience are less important than a mans ego and opinion

Oh wait...

Why aren't we teaching men not to rape and murder

We are. Both are illegal and are viewed by the vast majority of society as being heinous crimes. In fact, the only people who think it's Ok to murder and rape are murdering rapists, and society's attempts to "teach" them otherwise clearly hasn't worked that well.

Only two boys. But then they only got 5 days :

www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/90481818/wellington-college-students-suspended-over-facebook-rape-comments

Sorry, that was meant to illustrate the point that the "vast majority"'s view of rape as heinous can't be taken for granted.

There's nothing wrong with advising anyone to exercise situational awareness or to take basic precautions regarding personal safety, it's sensible advice that helps reduce the risk of being assaulted/raped/falling over a bridge or down an embankment because you can't walk straight.

Unfortunately, it is a sad fact that not everyone can be trusted and there's no amount of awareness or (reasonable) caution that will stop a bad person if they are determined. Advising situational awareness, in this case, can often unintentionally come across as victim blaming.

More victim blaming. If only she didn't go out late at night, if only she had got a taxi (never mind John Worboys), if only she...it wouldn't have happened. I imagine the erosion of female only spaces, and the spread of gender neutral areas, is only going to make women responsible for more attacks on them.

In the article echt has posted, If we replaced those words with, let’s say, ‘Asian girls’ for arguments sake, what do you think the consequences would have been?

I’m suggesting they would have lost their places because racism is seen in worse light than hatred for females.

I imagine the erosion of female only spaces, and the spread of gender neutral areas, is only going to make women responsible for more attacks on them.

I suspect this as well - I also suspect when women and girls start withdrawing from areas of public life in response to not feeling safe they'll be blamed for that as well.

The thing is that 1030pm is just not that late anyway - why shouldn't a woman be allowed to walk around at that time?

It really is time we sorted out male violence. I get fed up with people going on about "terrorism". Whether or not they have a "cause" they are murdering arseholes and nearly always male.

There is a male violence problem. Not a female situational awareness problem. As a woman I should be able to go and do what I like. I will know there is true equality when I can go for a run anywhere on the same basis that a man can.

As for this nonsensical comment:

Being an idiot and walking alone in the park at 10:30 p.m. at night is.

Really? 10.30 is not late. And why shouldn't she because some male arsehole is waiting to kill someone? Maybe the male arseholes could stop killing women (and other men come to that).

And yes of course you take care in the same way that you don't walk out in front of a car when you are out and about.

But that's to avoid accidents, not male violence.

This whole thing is so very sad :(

I remember at school (all girls) we had a self defence class when we were 15/16. The very burly male instructor told us things like:

• never take the window seat on a bus, as someone could sit in the aisle seat and prevent you from escaping.
• always reverse park, so that you can get away quickly if needed.
• Hold your keys in your hand, but don't put them through your fingers because they can bend into your hand rather than hurting your attacker (good advice).

There were other things, but it makes me so sad that we had to be told things like that. I wonder if the boys school had similar classes? Probably not.

Before I was pregnant, I would run through my local park and down the canals near my house at 6am every Sunday. At one point, I was marathon training so hours (and miles) from home and 'safety.' Should I not have been allowed to do that because I was a woman? That seems ridiculous.

I'm so very sorry for this poor woman's family, and I hope they get justice for her. #RIPEurydice

^^^

My ^ was intended for itstime's post.

@Andro

Yes, good post. I’ve struggled to articulate how I feel about it and I think your post hits the nail on the head.

I think it does unintentionally come across as victim blaming. I agree with all the comments that we shouldn’t be telling women and girls to moderate their behaviour even more than we already do. It’s not fair. It’s not right.

But I’d be lying if I said I won’t be asking my teenage daughters to call me or their dad for a lift instead of walking through dark areas alone at night. I’d be lying if I said I won’t mention that it can be dangerous to accept drinks and lifts from strange men.

I hate that if they don’t take my advice and something happens, my advice might make them feel slightly culpable.

Well that was a remarkably stupid thing to do. In and ideal world no body should have to avoid dark parks but in reality no one should be walking through a park late at night (especially in winter when it is likely to be quite empty). You could happen across all kinds of unsavoury characters who may wish to harm you. The police really should be advising everyone to exercise situational awareness. Poor woman.

My view is that it’s not victim blaming to advise caution. I would always advise my daughter and my friends NOT to walk through parks, deserted walkways at night. I have done it and felt extremely vulnerable. Of course we should be able to walk where we want on our own, but there is more risk. There just is. There’s no way round that.

@itstimeforanamechange it is the height of winter in Australia. Dark and cold for a long time by 10:30. Its is very late to be in a park in winter.

Someone asked earlier in the thread what men think of this, well I can't speak for us all but obviously I think it's utterly horrendous. I have two daughters, one old enough to go out on her own at night and something like this happening is obviously my worst fear.

Do I try and teach her situational awareness? Of course, I wish I didn't have to but that's not the world we live in. I would be overjoyed if I thought she could go about her business with no chance of being assaulted, sexually or otherwise.

I unfortunately believe that education (for men) on this matter will not solve the problem, I know not to rape anyone, I've always known it. I've found that simple premise pretty easy in truth, don't touch anyone that doesn't want touching. It's not difficult.

Everyone knows shoplifting is wrong and 99% of us don't do it (even though we all want the things on display) yet people still shoplift. Do not steal things is totally ingrained into pretty much every society yet we still have thieves.

Men know it's wrong and chose to do it anyway. Abusive men in domestic violence situations know that's wrong and chose to do it anyway.

It's far to simplistic to say, tell them not to do it and they won't.

Curfews unfortunately wouldn't work for pretty much the same reasons. (Curfews for men I mean) the only ones breaking it would be the ones who don't really care about the rules in the first place.

The only thing I can see that might possibly have a chance of even helping this, is early identification of people likely to commit these crimes and appropriate help for them. Be that genetic identification or behavioural. There must be a common link somewhere that we can see, that tells us if a man is wired to rape and murder people. If we can find that then we can do something about it.

All of this reminds me a bit of home security; the sensible measures you can take to make your home less vulnerable.

But you know what? They all say the same thing: if someone really wants to rob your house, your defensive procedures are zip.

The message is don't blame the victim. EVER,

My view is that it’s not victim blaming to advise caution.

Of course it isn't, the problem arises when sensible advice is mistimed (such as directly after an attack) and the intended message can then be perceived (by some) as placing a measure of culpability on the victim.

@Allaboutalex jeans do make you safer. Sex offenders are known to target wen with clothing that is easy to lift/take off like skirts. They also target women who wear footwear that is difficult to run away in. Wearing jeans isn't a fool proof way to protect yourself against assault but many men would be less inclined to attack you if they think it will be mire difficult than waiting for someone in a skirt.