To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

When I was at uni we were all (actually especially the boys) warned against walking along the canal as a shortcut from nights out.

Two hazards were mentioned. Risk of assault (motivation could be sexual, theft or anything) and risk of drowning. Both applied.

Any person or group should exercise care in their choice of route - a group of lads might attract attention for different reasons but anyone could be at risk!

But women have situational awareness. We spot the creepy looking guy who gets off at the same tram stop

We don’t all have situational awareness. I used to take horrendous risks as a teen when I went out clubbing and travelling home during the night, walking through unlit parks or deserted underpasses. Like most young people I thought I was immortal and situational awareness was something I learned after a few hairy situations when taking risks.

The warning is a good one for anybody, not just women and it’s one I give my sons. Be careful to stick to safe areas and keep your eyes open. Can’t see any harm in another reinforcing reminder from the police.

@donajimena

But what difference does your mental list make?

In the US rape is now non-gendered and (using an example the anti-trans people usually like) in sex-segregated prison women are more likely to be sexually assaulted and raped than men.

I think regardless of the incident the police will advise similar to all (thinking bombers on tube, knife attacks in London etc)

I assume many of you have read or watched The Handmaids Tale. Can the people who are arguing that the victim "should bit have out herself in that situation" explain to me how that differs from the "Freedom From" peddled in Gilead?
Quite frankly I want and believe all women deserve "Freedom To". I don't want to have to walk around with another female at all times to "ensure my safety".
I don't want women to have judged on what they wear & told that their outfit in some way caused a man to take them.
Obviously The world within The Handmaids Tale is an extreme example, but can people honestly not see that when you belittle women's ability to do things (like to walk home at night alone) you are simply giving men more power?

*shouldn't have put (not should bit have out)

Exactly sausages.

If anyone is going to have their freedom fettered it should be the perpetrator class. No men in the park after dark for example.

“If there’s to be a curfew, let the men stay at home, not the women.”

Golda Meier, ex Israeli PM, in response to being told that women should restrict their activities after a series of stranger rapes in the country.

I used to volunteer for an organisation that worked with survivors of rape and sexual assault.

There was some particularly useful training from a specialist who provided training to lawyers and judges about this issue.

The sorts of cases of 'stranger rape' are not the most common form of rape - though they are the most highly publicised. What is more typical is for a man to seek out women who are potentially vulnerable via social media. It's the sort of guy who might make a Facebook Friend request and do a bit of low level chatting. Who might take a note of your relationship status, and also of then that relationship status changes. Who might register the fact you've announced you are going to a particular club on a particular night. Who would come over and have a friendly chat. And when your female friend had hooked up with somebody would offer to escort you home, because you can't be too careful - there are some bad guys out there.

It's the old 'don't blame the victim for taking precautions ' debate gain. Yawn.
When are people going to realise that the scum who commit crime, be it rapists, muggers, murderers or whatever are not going to be receptive to any sort of information or campaign to get them to change their ways. If they were they wouldn't be criminal scum in the first place!

So the advice has to go to those likely to listen ie the victims of crime hence these kind of campaigns.

This is in no way blaming the victim for the crimes!

But shocked people are blaming the women.
Why should she have not walked through the park? Why shouldn't women walk after dark? Or go out and enjoy themselves?

This is the fault of a disgusting and vile creature that doesn't deserve to see the light of day again. Not the lady.

The warning is a good one for anybody, not just women and it’s one I give my sons. Be careful to stick to safe areas and keep your eyes open. Can’t see any harm in another reinforcing reminder from the police.

I agree, the warning should apply to everyone. There is no sure fire way of preventing crime so we all have to be sensible in our personal safety. This is not victim blaming, just how things are in the world today.

Quite frankly I want and believe all women deserve "Freedom To". I don't want to have to walk around with another female at all times to "ensure my safety".
I don't want women to have judged on what they wear & told that their outfit in some way caused a man to take them.

We all want that, but it’s a world that doesn’t exist. We all wish it did, but it just doesn’t. There are a lot of idealistic people on this thread and that is great because it gives us something to aim for, but we’re not there yet. Not even close.

The warning is a good one for anybody, not just women and it’s one I give my sons. Be careful to stick to safe areas and keep your eyes open. Can’t see any harm in another reinforcing reminder from the police

It is a good one for anybody, but I can't remember it ever being said in the media by the police after anything but the rape/murder of a woman.

Why don’t the police use the press attention to tell rapists that they will stop at nothing to catch and prosecute them. Or to call for fathers to talk to their sons about consent. Or to call for schools and youth clubs to discuss healthy sexual relationships.

Or they could tell women that if they report rape, sexual assault and violence they will be taken seriously and treated with respect so that they can catch these men the first time they do anything ( guaranteed this isn’t his first offence). Not roll out the same ‘try not to get raped ladies’ bollocks.

The more I read of situations like this the more and more sense it makes to ban men from going into parks and going out after 10pm. Until we can guarantee a safe society for women, why should men (who are the class that commit violent crimes) be allowed their freedom whilst women are told to avoid certain areas, avoid being alone, avoid being out past a certain time?

If men had to stay indoors, women could do whatever they liked without fear of attack.

This probably makes me sound like a crazy, radical, ultra feminist, but to those saying “not all men”, well it’s NO women, so why should women have their freedom curtailed?? Saying that makes you sound like an ultra men’s rights activist to me! The reason you think it’s ok is because we’ve all been socialised from birth to think this way. If we flipped things round, within a generation the kids would think it was crazy that in the past we let dangerous people roam about and tried to limit victims’ freedoms!

But for a more realistic solution, yes - the message from the police should be:

• if you rape someone, you will be found, prosecuted and convicted, with the harshest sentence pushed for;
• if you report a rape; you will be believed and treated fairly and with dignity;
• if you are a parent or teacher, make sure you are teaching your sons about consent, respect and women’s rights;
• if you have any men in your life that you’re concerned about, report them.

What is "NO women", @ConkerGame ?

No I was using them as examples of men who didn't go around with "I am a sicko rapist murderer" tattooed on their foreheads which I am sure was clear.

The pics I posted related to rape culture - which empowers all rapists to feel justified, entitled to women's bodies - and also as a rebuttal to all the "women know your role, don't be a victim" crap we get in eg police advisories!

Trip - While NAMALT a hell of a lot are and even those that aren't contribute to rape culture with everything from General sexist attitudes to rape 'jokes' and sexual harassment. I know VERY few men who will actually pull up even an acquaintance let alone a friend or relative for making an inappropriate comment or 'joke', will intervene if they see someone they know or even a stranger sexually harassing a woman or girl.

It's pervasive, widespread and toxic!

"NO women" means women aren't raping and murdering women, as against "not all men".

This is not men vs women. This is all normal people in society vs a rapist and murderer.

Someone who is a rapist and murderer is not going to benefit from any sort of education re harming women. They are totally sick with evil compulsions , they aren’t just uneducated or misguided. If such a person is on the loose, then yes you have to curtail your own freedom in order to not encounter him or at least very substantially lessen your chances of encountering him.

But then why should men have their freedom to go out because a few absolutely vile people that are the same sex do something horrible.

I think that there needs to be very stern punishments for rape and sentencing increased. I think young boys need to learn explicitly about consent during senior school. I think the police need to treat rape victims better. What I don't want is anyone being restricted to go about their daily business.

Situational awareness is a sensible thing to exercise.

Yes this is sensible however it rapidly gets extrapolate to "magical thinking" - that doing it will mean attacks can't happen - which again rapidly lead to blaming the victim - oh they should of done y instead so they are partly to blame.

Was at IL local paper had headline about local rape from bus stop - both my IL went on about how terrible but also said oh young woman drinking and putting themselves at risk so terrible such poor judgement.

Reading the article young mum do evening min wage job mid-week getting home by bus and being overpowered by couple of me taken and then dumped. MIl was then working a min wage cleaning job finishing much later and leaving from a nearby bus stop to rape and then also walking further home alone most nights.

My 12-year-old DD goes out and about by herself and with friend. I wasn't given that freedom and at 18 in a big city having been brought up a people pleaser did put myself in precarious situations - not because I thought I was invincible but because I was inexperienced and it didn't hit me how dangerous till I was in them - though everything in my case was fine.

I think in fairness to the woman who said she dresses down she was talking about when she visits the city and her husband does too. I think she meant not flashing her wealth as opposed to not flashing her legs.

I think obviously situational awareness is important, but it’s how the message is delivered.
Don’t be alone and drunk- good message
Don’t wear a short skirt- stupid message as jeans won’t make you safer and also victim blaming

The biggest thing is how and when the messages are delivered. When there’s robberies in the area police also suggest alarms etc and no one thinks about victim blaming. It’s because when a men is attacked or beaten up you don’t hear the police preach sitauational awareness is why it ultimately comes across as victim blaming.

It’s like the H&M monkey shirt or the women maths meme on MN it’s all very innocent and logic and rational until you remember we don’t live in a innocent logical rational world and context is king.