To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

I have taught both my ( young adult) children situational awareness from an early age.
We traveled a lot when they were young, so the understand not to walk around busy streets with expensive cameras of phones on show. To keep their money in an inside pocket.

My son knows to avoid certain parts of the city at night on a weekend where he runs a greater risk of violet attack.
My daughter is aware not to get caught alone in a street full of drunken people at 2am.

No one is victim blaming.
The police in Australia were wrong to issue this statement.
Rape and attack is always wrong.
But we live in the real world.
Just as I lock my car and home I also practice and encourage others to practice self protection.

@justarandombloke

But by being a father, a role model and taking responsibility for your son you ARE taking responsibility, which is what I meant. I didn’t mean men had to magic up a solution.

Hatred and disrespect start in the home. When men leave all the donkey work of raising children to their wives, disrespect her in front of their children or abandoning women they impregnate to raise their kids alone what message does that send?

I’m neither blaming all men nor anyone with testosterone as some posters are implying.

All I’m saying is it is NOT ok for the first response to be ‘women, remove yourself from public life’. Father’s need to step as much as women. In your case that’s sounds like that’s what you are already doing.

When that rush of hormones comes surging in for teenage boys, if all they have learned is disrespect of females how well does that work out for society?

When men leave all the donkey work of raising children to their wives,

Most SAHMs do most of the " donkey work" at home.

Are we raising rapists?

It takes more than parents to raise a child.
I am not excusing rapists, but parents themselves are sometimes the result of dysfunctional upbringing and continue a cycle that they can't break out of.
It's all very well blaming parents but what if the parents are unable or incapable or raising well adjusted kids?
And I am not simply speaking about families who are in despair, on the fringes, these are often middle class families, outwardly functional but emotionally crippled.

It takes more than parents to raise a child

I agree, but look on just about any thread on MN about parenting and it will say:

Someone disciplined my child: your child your rules

I'm in the company of a friend whose child is out of order: Butt out. not your circus, not your monkeys.

I am curious about something. If I were covered head to toe and walked through a park at noon in broad daylight and was unlucky enough to meet a rapist, could some of the posters admonishing women for not keeping themselves safe tell me where I would have gone wrong and how I could/should have prevented it?

I think being told to be situationally aware as a female is a sensible thing. Maybe it's not fair, but I sure as hell would raise any daughter of mine to be safe, and that would involve not getting black out drunk and stumbling about on the way home unaware of what was going on, or to walk without headphones in and without your phone in your hand. Or to plan your route with awareness of the type of street you might be walking down.
Is it ideal. No. Is it wise...yes. I'd rather take care than risk my safety, even if I shouldn't have to take care.

I certainly wouldn't walk through a park in the dark, alone. Of course, we should be able to do that safely, but wanting that won't make it happen.

If I were covered head to toe and walked through a park at noon in broad daylight and was unlucky enough to meet a rapist, could some of the posters admonishing women for not keeping themselves safe tell me where I would have gone wrong and how I could/should have prevented it?

You are missing the point. No one is suggesting that.

However we don't live in an ideal world.

And as unpalatable as the truth is, we can minimise our risks.

Sad, and should not be necessary, but true.

wrenika you are right.

The world can be a cruel horrible place.

It's not just women that need to minimise their risks- as any parent with an older teenage boy will tell you.
Young men have to learn too.

I have travelled a lot in my life to many far flung places

You learn quickly not to keep your valuables on display- not to keep them in the top compartment of your rucksack, don't have expensive cameras around your neck, or posh watches around your wrist.
Don't wear a bag with a shoulder strap ( you realise the worth of the much maligned " fanny pack" worn around the waist under your jacket.
And many more safety precautions.

And this is for both sexes.

So while rape is of concern mostly to women other forms of attack are not.

The point is that one could do everything 'right' and still someone would find a way to blame them or place the responsibility on their shoulders and tell them what they should have done differently. What I should like to know is there ever a scenario where a woman is not told to shoulder some of the responsibility for her own assault.

Situational awareness isn’t victim blaming - it’s common sense. As a young black male, I’ve taught my 17 year old son that he needs to be careful where he goes and who he hangs out with - there are people out there who are hell bent on causing trouble, he doesn’t need to get caught in the crossfire and end up a statistic. He’s also been taught to drink in moderation and to look out for his friends, the same advice i’ve given my two daughters.

I think most women are already ‘situationally aware’, and to the point where it impacts their lives. It is discouraging that in 2018 the police are still putting the onus on women to avoid rape and assault. It is also ignorant, given that most rapes happen in the victim’s own home and/or are committed by someone she knows. I know it is a cruel world and bad things happen, but this kind of attitude is not helping anyone.

I don’t notice victims of robbery/burglary etc being blamed. It only happens with rape.

And parents can try very hard to raise their sons to think of women as equals and treat them with respect, but we still live in a society where women are not equal or treated with respect, so they are still exposed to all these influences that parents cannot control.

Hadjab exactly.

As the mother of a 20 year old son I have been through exactly the same thing.

I can't remember where I read it, might have been on MN, but there was some research done recently analysing the differences in press reporting when there's a terror attack and when a woman is attacked like Eurydice was. The whole narrative with the terror thing was we must all be brave and carry on our lives, not let these things stop us, the attackers are to blame. With the women who've been attacked, the narrative is oh, she shouldn't have been there, done that etc etc, ie blaming the woman both subtly and non-subtly. It was a really good piece of research.

And there is still so much ignorance about rape. The actual age range of rape varies from about 18 months to 85 years. Are you going to tell a baby or someone in their 80’s who is housebound to be ‘situationally aware’?!

It’s got nothing to do with dress or alcohol or walking at parks in night, and everything to do with the person who rapes. That is who the focus should be on. Not rocket science.

It’s got nothing to do with dress or alcohol or walking at parks in night, and everything to do with the person who rapes. That is who the focus should be on. Not rocket science.

Of course, the focus should be on the person who rapes but in the meantime it makes sense for everyone to reduce the chance of being the victim of crime. And while what you wear probably has no impact, walking in a park at night alone will increase the risk so sensible not to do that.

Well, if rapists didn’t rape...! Why isn’t the focus on stopping rapists rapin’? Because it isn’t.

This guy is on the loose - it would be mad not to convey that warning to the public. They could I suppose have told people in general to be aware, but since he has targeted a woman, then why not address the warning in the proper direction.

We need to stop griping about nit-picks and see the bigger picture when it comes to the situation of women.

We cannot wish away the fact that there are perverted men around who cannot control their behaviour. It is entirely reasonable that women should be warned and respond accordingly.

If we get so touchy about the language used that we hamper women's safety, then what is the point of that?

Well, if rapists didn’t rape...! Why isn’t the focus on stopping rapists rapin’? Because it isn’t.

Do you think that it would ever be possible to prevent rape or other crimes though? Not everything is down to upbringing but even if it was, do you think it possible for society to prevent every dysfunctional or unhappy childhood.

If we get so touchy about the language used that we hamper women's safety, then what is the point of that?

Because that approach isn’t working - we tell women to be situationally aware but men are still out raping. There’s only so much we can do - and it runs the risk of the inevitable ‘she shouldn’t have...’. Meaning ‘she is partly to blame for being alone at night/drunk/walking through a park’.

This is definitely seen as women’s problem to solve but like I said upthread, there’s very little we can do to stop it. It needs all men taking responsibility for keeping women safe from men.

Situational awareness applies to men and women. Its common sense, there will always be crime in the world, whether that's robbery, murder, sex attacks (on men and women). Situational awareness means being aware.

How do you know it is not working? How do you know how many rapes and assaults have been prevented by sensible precautions being taken by women?

Rapists are a fact of life. You do not magic them away by failing to arm women with the proper tools to maintain their own safety - similar to having a flu jab. We would all prefer it if we lived in an ideal world with no flu/rapists, but until that day (!?) we have to behave sensibly.

I went for a run in our little rural town park yesterday morning and a weird guy in a hoodie kept following an old lady who seemed to be walking fast. Ran past them and kept and eye on him.
Later saw them again and the lady was running...As in jogging.
It was her grandson, being her 'guard'.
Well, she may have felt safe but he put everyone else on edge!

But, but namalt, so why should women go through life assessing every man as a potential rapist? It’s not fair to men to tar them all with the same brush The amount of knots people tie themselves in to absolve men as a class of the responsibility of violent sexual crime and push it onto women is astounding.

RIP that poor woman.