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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Horrible dilemma- please help.

428 replies

beclev24 · 13/06/2018 18:46

I have had many years of fertility treatment and through a combination of IVF and frozen embryos now have three wonderful DS's including a 6 month old baby. I am incredibly grateful and lucky to have them but Life with a baby and two rambunctious older boys is VERY VERY full on and exhausting. i often feel totally overwhelmed.

it's awful to say, but I have always craved a girl. This obviously doesn't mean that I love my boys any less- just that I have always wished I could raise a daughter and felt very disappointed and sad that I haven't had that chance. I've really tried to work out why I feel this way. I am not a gender essentialist. I don't believe htat there are hard wired differences between boys and girls and I have brought my sons up to believe that boys and girls can and should pursue any interests they enjoy. But still....I think bringing up a girl is a different experience from boys- mainly navigating a different set of social expectations and ones which I feel personally way more comfortable with. I adore my boys but a lot of their interests bore me senseless. I know this may also be true with a girl but I think that it would be easier to share old toys/ games/ interests with a girl growing up without constantly feeling as though you are making a point or fighting the tide of the whole of society etc etc. I would dearly love to share my experience of being a girl with my own daughter. But I just assumed that we woudl have no more children and so was coping wtih the fact that this would never happen.

Anyway after a lifetime of infertility, at age 45 while breastfeeding and using contraception I am unexpectedly 10 wks pregnant, wiht a girl (found out thro harmony test) a! I have no idea what to do. on the one hand, having another child may push us over the edge (DH feels this even more strongly than me)- we are exhausted, are boys are full on and very demanding, my career would never recover, my last pregnancy was risky, this one likely will be too, Im old etc etc. everything points away from having another child but yet this would be my longed for daughter, WWYD?? Ay advice/ perspectives welcome

OP posts:
Fruitcorner123 · 13/06/2018 23:43

This thread is so distasteful

it seems odd to me that pro choice means abortion is the woman's decision and it"s not a 'baby' anyway it's just a collection of cells. However when a woman considera an abortion for a reason which is not socially acceptable the baby is lucky it's a girl I thought it wasn't a baby just a collection of cells. Make uour mind up. The OP is I0 weeks pregnant so we are not talking about a late abortion.

If it's not a baby yet why are people so offended?

foxpox · 13/06/2018 23:47

Maybe raising a girl will give you a chance to be something you feel your own mother lacked? Obviously we (mums on here) will identify with girls because we were little girls and society draws a very clear line of division between the sexes. We are female, then everything else. So we can't help but identify with the thing that first and foremost categorises us.
I have genuinely not been fussed about what sex my children were. But with my girls I do so dearly want for them to have the freedom to feel and behave in ways I was scolded for. I have a desire to raise them so they can be their own selves without being pressed down to conform. They shouldn't have to be what someone says they're supposed to be. This could easily have moved to a place of me wanting a girl (so I had the chance to play out the role that my mother didn't). I'm sort of seeing myself in them so trying to help them in the ways I suffered.

Op, maybe you just want to have a little girl because you were one and you want the chance to help and support her through to womanhood because that's what you've gone through. You want to live to be that role model and you have knowledge and experience to give. Rather than crudely, you having a girl with the expectation she will be something your boys are not.

If I'm way off, apologies. You've enough to think about without someone coming on and missing the point!

Mytrainwaslate · 13/06/2018 23:48

Because selection of embryos based on sex, eye colour, skin tone, and other superficial attributes is ethically dubious. During her ivf, she wouldn't have been able to ask them just to put the girls back, unless there was a medical reason. Sex based termination is a social problem, globally, and it makes people uncomfortable.

Imagine someone saying "I've had genetic tests, and this baby has brown eyes. I already have 2 with brown eyes, so I'm terminating. I'd have continued the pregnancy for blue eyes. I just want to be able to gaze at blue eyes lovingly as well as the brown eyes." It's to do with genetic engineering concerns, rather than over abortion itself.

lindalee3 · 13/06/2018 23:53

@margaretcavendish

I also feel a bit uncomfortable with the repeated suggestion that because this baby was unplanned it was 'meant to be', 'fate' or 'a miracle' in a way that her sons conceived through IVF weren't.

Yeah, I agree. As I said, (and several others have,) this thread - and the whole tone of it - is pretty distasteful. Hmm

Fruitcorner123 · 13/06/2018 23:57

It's to do with genetic engineering concerns, rather than over abortion itself

That makes sense to me. I have to admit I didn't see it that way. It doesn't explain the suggestions that she needs counselling because she wants a girl though. I still stand by my original comment: if you had 3 babies of one gender you would be more likely to want the other gender for a 4th child. I don't agree with aborting based on gender but people suggesting she needs counselling becuse she wants a girl are ridiculous.

OP I hope you are convinced now that you should keep your baby as long as the health risks to you are not significant. I am fairly sure you would regret aborting, regardless of gender. That is based on what you have posted.

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:00

She needs counselling to unpack her preconceptions of what parenting a daughter will be like, so she doesn't put the baggage of this onto that poor baby girl. Imagine you'd only been born because you had a vulva? That may give you some issues...

Fruitcorner123 · 14/06/2018 00:05

There are literally millions of children out there who are the girl/boy their parents had longed for. Yes most parents don't get to know before 12 weeks but do you honestly believe that if the OP couldn't find out at 10 weeks she would have aborted. I don't based on what she has posted. Wanting a particular gender is normal even though it's nice to think we all wouldn't care.

I hope the baby will never know the details.of what's happening now. i think the OP is being too hard on herself.and some posters are being too hard on her.

Cornishclio · 14/06/2018 00:07

Pre eclampsia is a risk if you have already had it once and as an older mum there will be an inclination to it but providing you are monitored regularly there should be no reason why this should be riskier than any other pregnancy.

Given your wish to have a girl I think I would struggle to terminate if I were in your position. I only had 2 girls so cannot comment on how much worse 4 children is than 3 to cope with but undoubtedly it will be hard given your DS3 will only be around a year at the time of DD1 birth. Hard decision either way but you need to be governed by what is best for you and your DH, your 3 DS and your baby DD. After years of infertility conceiving this baby seems like it was meant to be.

BakedBeans47 · 14/06/2018 00:08

fruitcorner since when does being pro choice re abortion mean that you think a foetus is a “bunch of cells”?

I’m pro choice and have never used that phrasing.

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:08

Based on the OP stating she would have terminated if it were a boy, then, yes, I believe she would. Our she believes she would. And that is a burden that is OPs, and shouldn't be the little girl's. Or her brothers'. OP needs to address that. Such a strong sex preference in your children is not normal or healthy.

Wellonlyifihaveto · 14/06/2018 00:14

.

MargaretCavendish · 14/06/2018 00:17

do you honestly believe that if the OP couldn't find out at 10 weeks she would have aborted. I don't based on what she has posted.

Well, given that it is, word for word what she has said, yes I do think she would have aborted a boy. I think it's a bit odd to claim to know better than her what she would 'really' have done.

Again, I think she should keep this baby, as that seems to be what she wants. I don't think it's mad to suggest that she should consider counselling to ensure she doesn't project her own issues onto her children (all of them, not just her daughter), though. For what it's worth I have had quite a lot of counselling and some of it addressed my fears of passing my own issues onto my child and how to counteract that, so I definitely don't think this is something to be ashamed of or that makes her a bad mother, I just think it's something worth considering further with a professional.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/06/2018 00:17

BakedBeans47 i got that directly from another thread on here on the subject. I dont believe that either but I feel annoyed that some reasons for aborting (health reaons aside) seem to be more acceptable than others. Either its ending a life or it's not.

We have created a system where it is possible to abort a child after finding out its gender.

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:19

Possible, but not legal. There is no clause for terminating because you want the other sex in the abortion act, and if that is the main reason, abortion would not be legal.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/06/2018 00:19

margaretcavendish she said that if she knew it was a boy she would have aborted. I mean if she couldn't find out would she?

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:21

Centres where sex based terminations have been common will usually have a policy of not disclosing the sex to parents antenatally. Sex based termination is considered unethical, by those who perform terminations.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/06/2018 00:23

It's not legal but perfectly possible in our current system. I wouldn't be surprised if they could make it legal by suggesting it would affect the mother's mental health anyway.

The point I was making isn't a moral one about abortion or about the OP's position it was merely that her wanting a girl doesn't mean she requires counselling and frankly her situation is fairly uncommon and I doubt her daughter will ever be aware of it so am not really in agreement that she needs to get help. It's just a difficult situation .

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:24

I think that is a question OP should consider. If she had not known this was the desired girl, and she could be risking a boy,would she have terminated? From what she has written, she may have done. Which is something she needs to explore her own feelings about before it affects the kids.

Mytrainwaslate · 14/06/2018 00:25

Sex based termination is a crime. Doctors don't like to be criminals. www.gov.uk/government/publications/abortion-on-grounds-of-sex-of-the-foetus

MonsterKidz · 14/06/2018 00:25

Oh OP what a dilemma to have! Honestly. I think this is the kind of situation you just need to dive right in and be extremely thankful for what you have to gain!

I know it’s hard in the early days but in a few years it will be so much easier. You will
Kick yourself if you terminate. Look deep into your heart and think about raising that little girl inside you.

Good luck OP

ReanimatedSGB · 14/06/2018 00:31

Your H's opinion is irrelevant. You get to choose.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/06/2018 00:31

Mytrainwaslate ok I take your point. I think there are two seperate things here.

  1. the desire for a girl: perfectly normal and human to want both genders

  2. the decision to abort based on gender: extreme and unreasonable and creating a serious amount of pressure for the unborn child.

In my attempt to defend number 1) I may have been inadvertently defendng number 2) I don't and wouldn't. However I do think it happens, far more than it should.

lilybetsy · 14/06/2018 00:34

A harmony test is available from 10 weeks. The results take at LEAST. A week, usually two because the DNA replication takes time, I do not believe they test gender .

Biscuit
2up2manydown · 14/06/2018 00:36

fruitcorner

Since you’ve quoted me here:

“This thread is so distasteful

it seems odd to me that pro choice means abortion is the woman's decision and it"s not a 'baby' anyway it's just a collection of cells. However when a woman considera an abortion for a reason which is not socially acceptable the baby is lucky it's a girl I thought it wasn't a baby just a collection of cells. Make uour mind up. The OP is I0 weeks pregnant so we are not talking about a late abortion.

If it's not a baby yet why are people so offended?”

I’m trying to work out what you’ve read into my post. The baby girl is lucky because she will live. A boy would be terminated. That’s what I find distasteful. To clarify: I find abortion immoral. I have never used the term bunch of cells. Hope that helps.

Justaboy · 14/06/2018 00:42

Yes it may well be difficult and be more difficult that what you have at the moment but have you thought that other people have managed to raise a 4 or more child family?

Perhaps the lovely lady to be might have moderating effect on those boistirous boyz:!

You wanted her, you have her, now let he be and raise her and Enyoy her:-)

(Justaboy who has three lovely daughters and now has a Boy grandson which he's making lots of plans for to take him train spotting and have go on the real Thomas the tank engine:)