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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be filled with fury at increase in measles cases

176 replies

GivenAndDenied · 13/06/2018 09:34

We've had a letter sent round my DD school recently, telling us of an increase nationwide, and in our county, of measles, and offering advice on what to do to protect children.

I get that there are some children (and adults) who cannot be vaccinated for genuine health reasons relating to other existing health conditions. And my fury is absolutely not aimed at them. If everyone else is responsible and vaccinates their kids, then these vulnerable members of our society who cannot be vaccinated will be hopefully protected by herd immunity.

But it makes me furious that because of people listening to woo and bollocks about vaccines, that we are having an increase in life-threatening illnesses, and getting letters about how best to protect your children. How best to protect your children is to goddamn vaccinate them.

OP posts:
Sayhellotothesun · 14/06/2018 15:00

Thanks for this thread, you've genuinely just reminded me that I've forgotten my sons pre-school jabs (he's 3 years 8 months). Shit!

GorgonLondon · 14/06/2018 15:20

itstimeforanamechange
You might find these helpful as starting points:

www.wired.com/2011/06/brain-risk-probability/

understandinguncertainty.org/

www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/Dept/People/Spiegelhalter/davids.html

Blaablaablaa · 14/06/2018 15:30

@itstimeforanamechange no you clearly have no common sense because you've just claimed that vaccinations wear off but if you have the illness you're immune for life ....then state you've had rubella twice and the vaccine!!!!

In all seriousness, most educated, sensible people realise that vaccinations do wear off ( which is why we have top ups) and that there is a very, very small risk. We can also weigh up this tiny risk against the risks associated with catching these diseases and realise they pose the much larger risk.

There is also the incredible selfish attitude. Just because you've had your head turned by some crack pot conspiracy theorists that you aren't intelligent or sensible enough see through you are putting vulnerable members of society at risk. The irony is that you and your children will probably be fine but the immunocompromised person who contracts something due to your selfishness probably won't be.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 14/06/2018 15:37

YANBU

Not vaccinating when you are able to makes my blood boil

Yes you can still catch an illness if you've been vaccinated against it but stats show you are much less likely to, and if you do, it's much less severe and for a shorter duration.

Yes as people have pointed out the actual risk of death from measles is very low, however the risk of serious lifelong complications such as hearing or vision issues, is very high (between 1 in 10 or 1 in 15).

Yes it is being brought in from other countries...where vaccinés are available but where the anti vax movement has taken hold so not much different from the UK. And why would we want to risk it spreading when it is here?

The common 'poisons' that people think are in vaccines are not poisonous (at least in quantities given). For example people often sat they are avoiding vaccines because of formaldehyde. What they don't realise is its a naturally occurring substance including in our bodies anyway and what's injected is a tiny tiny fraction of what we are exposed to daily anyway and any excess is naturally secreted out by the body - ie it is not in any way harmful. This is an example of people 'doing their research' without the full picture or having a medical background - a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous!

And don't get me started on the autism link - it's been disproved so many times that the fact it ever gets mentioned is beyond a joke

Lastly there is absolutely no scientific evidence that spacing the vaccine schedule has any positive effect. Most of the vaccines are very weakened forms of the disease or inactive therefore even the combined effect of them all at once is much lower than what the immune system is exposed to daily for a child.

Some vaccines shed eg rotavirus but most don't and even if they did it would be a very mild strain that only the very immunocpmpromised would get so no major outbreaks are caused by vaccination

But if you point out the above to any anti vaxxer you just get the illogical argument of 'that's what they want you to believe' or 'you're a sheep'.

I can't believe that people in the UK believe that profit from 'big pharma' is the reason we vaccinate - with the low cost of the vaccines and the time taken to do it, doctors surgeries lose money on this. (I can see where this might look different in the States where healthcare is run very differently)

Lots of countries in the EU vaccinate against chicken pox.

There is currenty an outbreak of measles in my area. I have a 6 month old and my eldest daughter is in nursery where there may be unvaccinated kids. I feel sorry for young babies in nurseries who are too young for the jabs who may be exposed to it.

My own feeling is that yes you are entitled to opt out of vaccinating your child if you want. However you then should be forced to opt out of doing harm to others who cannot be vaccinated (babies, immunocompromised, elderly etc) and should not be entitled to attend school, nursery etc. It's incredibly selfish to opt out of the very very small chance of harm to your own child while relying on everyone else taking that chance, to keep your child safe.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 14/06/2018 15:41

Sorry went a bit ranty

MadMaryBoddington · 14/06/2018 17:00

I had mumps and chicken pox at the same time, as a small child in the 1970s, before the MMR existed. It was not mild. It was horrific. I would not want any child of mine to suffer that.

Sortofcool · 14/06/2018 17:45

YANBU . I had measles when I was 9 in the era before there were vaccinations for MMR. I thought I was dying I was so ill. My DM wouldn’t let me look in the mirror so one day I asked my grandpa to bring the little bathroom mirror into my bedroom. He did and I just burst into floods of tears. I was one big blotch and my eyes were swollen into slits. That was the least of the problem though as I ended up with permanently poor hearing in one ear as well as mild learning difficulties after swelling in the brain. I will never forget the headaches and eye pain and being so ill for so long. All vaccines carry risks but serious diseases carry far greater ones and are more common. There aren’t parents in countries where vaccines are a rarity who would do anything to have their children given MMR and other inoculations.

Sortofcool · 14/06/2018 17:46

There ARE parents in countries where vaccines are a rarity, I meant to say.

Semster · 14/06/2018 17:50

PasswordRejection

Nothing more recent or rigorous than a news article from 2007? Which btw was only a year after the two-dose policy was adopted in the US?

Blaablaablaa · 14/06/2018 17:56

We are so lucky to live in a country where not only are vaccines readily available but, for the most part, they're free!

I've just had a set of boosters and new vaccines for an upcoming work trip and looking at the long list of diseases I'm being vaccinated against ( for free !!) I'm nothing but completely grateful.

mostdays · 14/06/2018 17:59

Yanbu at all, selfish, stupid people risking their children's lives and the lives of those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated make me angry too.

ChiefSpoon · 14/06/2018 18:00

I'm of the mindset that a vaccine and the risks associated with them are far lower than the risks of death or severe disability through these awful diseases. And whilst MMR is known not to cause autism, even if it increased the chance I'd still give the injection. Polio is something by dad had he was in hospital for nearly a year, is weak all down one side, missed out on far longer of school etc. The impact of it in his life is massive.

Penfold007 · 14/06/2018 18:21

I had one of the first measles vaccinations. Sadly I still contracted measles, I was incredibly ill and developed pneumonia, my parents were warned to expect the worst. I did recover but was left with scared and impaired lungs alongside hearing damage and tinnitus. My DC are up to date with their vaccinations. OP YANBU.

gillybeanz · 14/06/2018 20:54

Unless it becomes compulsory people are able to refuse, it's their choice.
I don't get the angst, tbh.
If you want to immunise your dc then that's fine, if you don't then that's fine too.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 14/06/2018 21:21

Gillybeanz people get angsty as they don't fancy their baby / granny / unborn child dying of a preventable illness. I realise it's very unlikely...but only because people have vaccinated. And sadly it's becoming more likely now when really if everyone that could have, had vaccinated, it would have been eradicated

Glumglowworm · 14/06/2018 21:30

YANBU

Vaccination should be compulsory except for people with medical exemptions.

People who could vaccinate and choose not to are putting their own children at risk, and putting those who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons at risk.

gillybeanz · 14/06/2018 21:40

People who could vaccinate and choose not to are putting their own children at risk, and putting those who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons at risk

So are those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. I know they have no choice but the end result is the same if somebody hasn't been vaccinated.

StarUtopia · 14/06/2018 21:59

Vaccines video

PasswordRejection · 14/06/2018 22:22

Semster the news article cites the studies it is based on. If you're interested, you can do some more research yourself. If not, don't. The CDC page on the chickenpox vaccine might, for example, shed some further light on it for you.

I'm not sure why you're taking the tone you are. It's clear from my original post that I am by no means anti-vaccination.

Shrimpi · 14/06/2018 22:42

It makes me angsty as I am working in clinical contact with children in a hospital in an area where there is currently an outbreak, and I am also pregnant. I have been immunised against measles (and had all other routine immunisations) but nevertheless I understand that immunity isn't perfect and if I caught measles at this stage, at the very least it would be a terrifying and horrendous ordeal, and at worst could result in death of me or my baby. As it happens, I did have a large amount of contact with a child with measles very early in my pregnancy so I am reasonably confident I'm immune! It's a very infectious disease!

But nevertheless, on a daily basis the need to consider and avoid measles is a professional inconvenience that has meant an uncomfortable refusal (on my part) to see a child. I just couldn't forgive myself if my baby died of measles. And I have wondered how I would feel, how I could move on from the emotions I would feel, if something terrible did happen as a direct consequence of someone else's decision not to immunise their child.

That said, all of the parents I have known who chose not to immunise and whose child subsequently contracted measles have held deep regrets and made immediate plans to immunise their other children. I have felt mostly pity for them. I only wish the reality would sink in before bad outcome (eg: a child getting measles). Heaven knows how anyone moves on if their child is actually killed or maimed by a immunisation preventable illness.

The reality is that in a world without immunisations measles and many other serious communicable diseases would be endemic - that is almost everyone would get the disease at some point in their lifetime. In the case of measles, we would see nearly all children suffering from the disease before 15 years old (similar to chickenpox now). Subsequently, many, many people would die or be maimed by these illnesses.

I think it is useful (and sometimes has a greater impact than just statistics or facts alone) to consider anecdotes from history. I recall in my own life, my grandmother pointing out the children in her school photograph who died or were maimed by immunisation preventable illness. It is unthinkable now.

Lincoln, Garfield, and Cleveland all lost children to diphtheria. Another of Garfield's children was killed by Pertussis (whooping cough).

B Franklin lost a son to smallpox (now eradicated, by immunisation). Of immunisation (which in his time was novel, and involved the much-riskier-than-modern-immunisations method of variation) he said:

“In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.”

Roald Dahl's beloved daughter Olivia died of measles aged 7. He wrote about her death in an essay entitled "Measles: a dangerous illness". She died not long before the first measles immunisations became available.

Dahl wrote "The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now (1986) if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her".

Bill Clinton said of the Polio immunisation:
"Franklin Roosevelt spent almost half his life in a wheelchair as a result of polio. And I was part of the first generation of Americans to be immunized against polio.
And I remember, as a child, seeing other children in iron lungs. And I remember what an enormous elation it was for me and my classmates when we first got our polio vaccines, to think that that's one thing we didn't have to worry about anymore. It's hard for people now who weren't alive then and weren't part of it to even imagine what that meant to a whole generation of children."

Shrimpi · 14/06/2018 22:44

That was meant to be "method of variolation" not "variation"

Semster · 14/06/2018 23:13

I did research PasswordRejection, including the CDC site, and found nothing to support your statement which is why I was curious to know what you were basing it on. Especially as the vaccine was introduced in the US in 1995 so if the vaccine really does wear off after 20 years you'd think the CDC would be recommending that my children's friends are boosted fairly soon.

CheshireChat · 14/06/2018 23:27

But the reason it's being brought in from Romania (not sure about Poland) is because Romanian anti vaxing twats are not vaccinating their kids. Apparently last year there were 7 cases in total, fast forward to this year and there's 10000 cases, 3 deaths so far Sad.

Oh and the vaccine is free in Romania as well.

Shadow666 · 14/06/2018 23:34

I live abroad and I was reading an article about how measles has been eliminated here due to the vaccination program. There’s an occasional outbreak when someone brings it from abroad, but it very rare.

I can’t imagine how someone feels when their kid gets sick due to an entirely preventable disease.