To be filled with fury at increase in measles cases

[GivenAndDenied]

We've had a letter sent round my DD school recently, telling us of an increase nationwide, and in our county, of measles, and offering advice on what to do to protect children.

I get that there are some children (and adults) who cannot be vaccinated for genuine health reasons relating to other existing health conditions. And my fury is absolutely not aimed at them. If everyone else is responsible and vaccinates their kids, then these vulnerable members of our society who cannot be vaccinated will be hopefully protected by herd immunity.

But it makes me furious that because of people listening to woo and bollocks about vaccines, that we are having an increase in life-threatening illnesses, and getting letters about how best to protect your children. How best to protect your children is to goddamn vaccinate them.

OP YA 100% NBU!

round Am i right in thinking age 49 that you had the most immunity because you had measles as a child?

I do think all adults (early 20's - early 30's) should be rechecked to see their immunity as I wouldn't be surprised if a lot were no longer immune and therefore capable of contracting it, and capable of spreading it.

Yet no one seems up in arms about that? Just children who are knowingly not vaccinated. Irrelevant really surely? If you're not covered, you're not covered. Does it matter why that is?

Dappled Even the NHS admit that vaccines shed and that you should stay away from imunio compromised people after being vaccinating. Are you saying they're ridiculous too?

YANBU I get the absolute rage with people not vaccinating. One of my colleagues was pontificating about how it wasn't necessary for 'her boys' as they weren't going to get pregnant - wtf!? Some people are so stupid and selfish it beggars belief.

I have been vaccinated 3 times in the UK, once as a child and then after each pregnancy (as they keep telling me it hasn't taken) I can't take any further steps to protect myself and it worries me that I could catch measles because others are too lazy/stupid to do the right thing.

@bluebird why won't you use MMR?

I don't know if this has been said yet but in the US you can send your child to school unvaccinated. The school system mounts out statements that make it sound as though you can't, in the hope that people will simply believe it and vaccinate as if it's an unbreakable rule. But it's in our constitution that the federal and state governments may not force medical care on citizens in any way. All you have to do to send an unvaccinated child to school is complete a form of personal objection.

My dd is fully vaccinated. I just thought I'd correct the misrepresentation.

The reason the uk don’t routinely vaccinate against chicken pox is because it is still relatively new. They are always a fair bit behind introducing things after it’s introduced in the US. Plus, they aren’t sure yet how vaccinated people will react when they are older if they come into contact with it. Shingles can fatal for an elderly person. The thinking is that a vaccinated person may get shingles muc( worse when older.

I still vaccinated DD against chicken pox. She’s had all the other jabs too. We live outside of the UK and meningitis isn’t available here so I paid for those jabs whilst visiting the UK.

I absolutely don’t understand anyone choosing not to vaccinate when they can.

I had a friend whose son couldn’t be vaccinated against MMR due to an allergy. She was so worried every time there was a case of measles. Thankfully, he grew out of the allergy and is up to date now.

The fact a vaccine can wear off isn’t an excuse not to do it in the first place!

coffee How did you find out you weren't protected? And then found out again (3 times) it hadn't taken?

No one has ever checked me to find out whether a vaccine has been successful.

@StarUtopia Mesales has the highest preventable death rate in the world. It is just not compatible to a cold or chickenpox, and I say that as someone who has paid to privately vaccinate my children against chickenpox because I think that can be serious enough at times.

*comparible not compatible

OP, YANBU

*StarUtopia Rotavirus can be passed on in stools for a few days after the jab. A quick Google has shown me nothing else about shedding and the NHS

I’m with you, really pisses me off. Anti vac mums often come out with the, ‘it’s the vegan/no sugar/no hand wash/water birth etc that means my child unvaccinated child hasn’t caught rubella. NO, your child hasn’t caught rubella because WE have vaccinated OUR children and thus protecting YOUR child.
A Facebook friend of mine spreads the anti vaccine propaganda all the time. Last year, she posted about her daughter having the ‘flu’ and how ridiculous any parent is to choose to vaccinate against it. Her post went something like, ‘Katie has the flu. A little paracetamol and honey and we are off to the playground,’ complete with a picture of smiling Katie. No you idiot, your child does not have the flu, your child has a bloody cold.

I was vaccinated as a child (late because I was immunocomprimised). I now live in the US, and had to get proof of my vaccinations to be accepted into college. It was easier to just get a blood test than to track them down, and my results were surprising - I had no immunity! There are some people where it just doesn’t ‘take’. I was revaccinated, repeated the blood tests a few weeks later, and same result. So I rely on herd immunity.

Additionally, some children were asked to leave my children’s school when it came to light that they weren’t vaccinated. They tried to claim all sorts of exemptions, including a religious exemption, but they were turned away. They’re currently threatening law suits.

Most antivaxxers spout absolute rubbish, agreed.

But at the same time I don't think this 'all hail vaccinations' attitude is quite right either.

The way vaccines work to prevent infectious diseases - fine. The idea that that is a magic fix all with no unwanted consequences - well we really have no idea. That we listen and never question to huge corporations that have massive financial incentives to be pushing or not developing certain vaccinations - not sensible.

We think we know that increasingly reduced exposure to various infectious organisms is contributing to an increase in allergic and immune mediated disease. We do not know if widespread vaccination fits into that picture somehow. I mean, it's starting to look like the mere giving of anti-inflammatories (paracetamol, ibuprofen) to babies may increase their risk of developing asthma. We're at the tip of the iceberg. The immune system is a ridiculously complicated thing that we really only know the bare bones of. The sneery 'I know best' attitude is so laughable.

And yes, I vaccinated my kids, because on balance in seemed like the best option for them. But there IS a balance.

TBH I'm not sure other people's medical decisions are any of your business there could be all sorts of reasons behind it

From what I’ve read the uk outbreaks are linked to other country travel and not uk based unvaccinated children.
There’s always a lot of hysteria surrounding people who choose not to vaccinate, and assumptions made that people decide that due to Andrew Wakefield or weird theories. It’s not always as simple as that.

The vaccine schedule has gone from babies of 16 weeks having 3 injections in total (when my first two kids were born) to now having 9 by that same age. Plus the boosters and such... I am far from convinced that there are no long term issues from such intense schedules. And the herd immunity “greater good” argument cannot make me overlook the risks to my child as an individual.
My four children are partially vaccinated- across a longer timescale etc. One was unvaccinated for many years and funnily enough was the healthiest of them all- no asthma, excema etc.

I agree that immunity should be checked regularly in adults. I've had 6 MMR vaccines, 3 as a child, 1 as a teen and 2 after pregnancies as the immunity tests in each pregnancy showed that I wasn't immune to measles. Hopefully the 6th MMR has 'taken' and I'm immune but I'm not confident given that dose 5 only lasted 4 years.

My dcs have all been vaccinated and will be having the hpv vaccine when old enough. I'll never understand why people choose not to vaccinate when the diseases the vaccines are for can kill.

YANBU. I had measles as a child and it was awful. I don't think I've ever felt so ill.

(I couldn't be vaccinated at the time because of a history of epilepsy in the family - but this was a long time ago).

Totally agree.
I have no time for selfish anti-vaxxers.
I also agree that the chicken pox vaccine should be on the NHS

You would be better directing your fury at the failure of Public Health England to reassure and ally the fears of those who were or are worried about vaccinations

@StarUtopia I was tested in my first pregnancy and subsequently vaccinated on the day I gave birth. Tested again in my 2nd pregnancy, vaccinated again (for the third time) on the day I gave birth and then when I had my 6 week check they tested me again and still not vaccinated. I opted not to do the 4th time as I agreed with my GP it was a waste of a vaccine as he said that there are 1-3% of people that fail to seroconvert with MMR and I am just one of them

Interesting this thread should come up today i'm having trouble convincing my wife to get our sons vaccinations done as shes believes all that internet stuff about autism and whatever else

I called the doctors our son is registered at today and they told me that i can't get it done without her permission.
I'm his dad but apparently that's not good enough
He's nearly 2 now and i have no idea what to do.

Dappled It's on the actual NHS form they give you for booster MMR vaccines (right at the back, right at the bottom, in small print!) Haven't got time now to find one, but I will!!

LilaYes, a lot of third world children sadly die of measles( or complications following measles and other diseases) I'm not sure that's comparable with normal, healthy, well nourished, well children in a first world country contracting measles.

Measles Deaths

It's a shame they don't have a column right next to it showing how many actually contracted measles in the same year.

Whilst I definitely do not want my child to be that '1', how many children each year are killed crossing the road? In a car accident? Drowning? etc etc etc. Life is risky. Do we all stop taking our kids in cars because we can prevent them dying in a road accident that way?

If I was seeing figures in their 000s of children dying from measles, then I would believe it was the killer disease they make it out to be via propaganda.

No doubt someone is now going to tell me that the official gov.uk site is fake news too...

I thought everyone got tested in pregnancy but apparently that stopped in 2016

www.gov.uk/government/news/rubella-susceptibility-screening-in-pregnancy-to-end-in-england

I do think all adults (early 20's - early 30's) should be rechecked to see their immunity as I wouldn't be surprised if a lot were no longer immune and therefore capable of contracting it, and capable of spreading it.

If this were true you’d expect to see the effect of it in outbreak epidemiology, though. Instead the patterns generally mirror the rates you would expect from the existing evidence base on the effectiveness of vaccines and the duration of that effectiveness.

I had breakthrough measles - not fun, and it happens, but would be less likely if more people were immunised. And when I travelled in Africa I had boosters for those diseases that are prevalent where I was visiting and where immunity is known to be time limited. When I was pregnant I was screened for rubella immunity.

The American system is worth investigating. No Vax so no schooling.

This is true in theory but not necessarily applied. My cousin's children (in US) aren't vaccinated and she just had to sign a form to say they were- no proof required.