to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

I went to a quite well known boarding school - and I think the confidence they instill is down to a number of things. Yes, I do think privilege is part of it - but other things too. For example, our teachers treated us like adults when we were in 6th form - we wore uniforms, but they let us express ourselves with pretty much whatever jewellery & make-up we wanted, there was no nitpicking of the small things, no telling us off for no reason. They treated us with respect and it made us feel like we, as humans, were worthy of that respect.

Also, there were lots of social events - theatre evenings, smart dinners at which we sat with teachers and adult guests, even during everyday lunch in our houses a teacher or visiting adult would sit at our table - with hindsight I see that was so we could practice polite conversation. I think it helped with social confidence later on in life.

When I was young (Primary age) you could go to speaking classes out of school. I seem to remember them being in a prim lady’s lounge and having to recite poems. I’m not sure that exists anymore

PandaPieaForTea
[gasp]
We did Elocution and Deportment in my Irish convent primary school. Every year each girl learned a poem and piece of prose from a given selection and on a certain day recited their pieces to a pair of ladies from the London Academy of Somethingorother who sat in a room in the convent. I had braces for many years and my Ss and Fs were all badly affected.

We also had to sing a song or a hymn in front of the class every year on Singing exam day. Sister R used to give better grades for hymns.

My own children had a far better, more varied and more practical experience of making their voices heard, very similar to what Pallisers describes in the US, first in a RC 'K-8' elementary school (age 4-13) and then in a public high school (14-18).

Movablefeast Wed 13-Jun-18 02:58:48
My DCs in their public high school experienced the same atmosphere of complete commitment and the expectation that they would push themselves as far as they could push. There were kids in the school who played varsity sports in all three athletic seasons for four years, built houses in New Orleans with church groups during school breaks, tutored struggling students in an organised peer to peer programme, participated in student government, mathlympics... the whole shebang, and still managed to graduate with weighted GPAs of 4.86 (and on to the Air Force Academy, Princeton, etc).

YYY to crack of dawn practices all week followed by more practice after school, and meets on weeknights and weekends, and no exception to the homework rules because you were busy the night before at a swim meet and the school bus dropped you back at school at 10:20pm.

That's...
When I was young (Primary age) you could go to speaking classes out of school. I seem to remember them being in a prim lady’s lounge and having to recite poems. I’m not sure that exists anymore
PandaPieForTea

To help your DC gain confidence then socialise them by joining groups, taking up sports or a hobby, something they would be good at and are interested in. Allow child to have a point of view. Talk to them about different thingS around them and in the world and allow them to put their thoughts across. Allow them to be a bit independent and give them some responsibility, like doing chores for reward. Challenge them by doing/learning g things with a little more difficulty. But most of all love them which will set them up for life.

I've worked in both sectors so here are my sweeping generalisations.
The private sector teachers waste less time on behavioural management, box ticking and woo policies and more on instilling excellence and pastoral care.

The class sizes are smaller and teachers can focus more on the children.
Private schools embrace culture and give more opportunity for diverse experiences.

Parents are more engaged. That's not to say state parents aren't but in the private sector I've never had a patent not turn up for a conference or answer an email. One parents evening in a maintained school 3 out of 30 parents showed up.
Private school kids do their homework and it's cool to be clever and learn.
Not everyone is loaded, some families put education at the very top of their priorities.

Support your teachers in state. Many parents only turn up to complain.
Send encouraging notes and thank them often.

I remember reading an article where a guy was talking about this. He went to private school and he said it was simply that the children were always made to feel like they were very important, that everything they ever had to say was incredibly useful and interesting. They were always listened to. He said he got a bit of a shock when he got a job working where people had very varied backgrounds and suddenly everyone didn’t automatically act like everything he did was utterly brilliant. He did say though that the confidence he gained from school made most people listen to him above others when he spoke.

Oh, and he did describe it as a sense of entitlement.

AjasLipstick, my DCs' high school has a similar programme, and so did the public middle schools where I live.

The high school executive skills programme was set up in conjunction with a pilot run by researchers in Northwestern University (Chicago/Evanston) and it is still going strong. It has even branched into prep classes in summer school for students contemplating AP classes the following year, who might normally be assumed to be on top of things.

The HS also has a programme where 13/14 year olds entering HS are identified in testing as candidates for a special summer programme mixing academic content with team building activities (kayaking in the pool and rock climbing in the gym climbing wall plus other activities) along with participation in the summer school musical put on every year either as crew or performers. Students who might otherwise find themselves struggling to become part of the community and falling behind academically who participated in this programme were exposed to a very open minded and welcoming environment in the summer musical experience, and were encouraged in their (basically remedial) classes in summer school before the first year, established relationships with the teachers and admin who ran the programme, and became engaged. Many participated in sessions with the school social worker through the next few years of school, working on family-related and other issue in a group setting. The whole idea is that early, positive and consistent intervention and relationship-creation within the school community is worth a tonne of disciplinary intervention later.

Al brought to the school by means of a $77 million+ annual budget.

my oldest goes to a private school (more accidental as we got allocated an school
miles away with a really bad reputation).
There are 3 productiobs per year, speaking roles for all.
Enough teachers and TAs in class to support all children (4 for 24 children)
A lot of focus on developing a child's strengths an weaknesses
All teachers know all children by name
Politeness and good manners is expected
Children are encouraged to have their own opinion and (politely) argue for it
our school is anazing (and i was really against private schools, but the difference to state school
is huge)

Math it sounds brilliant...I'd love to be able to tap the details and bring it to schools in low-income areas.

I went to a private school. What it gives you is not necessarily confidence but the veneer of confidence. On the basis of "fake it till you make it", perhaps that is just as good.

I think the confidence, or illusion of confidence, comes from growing up in an environment where the expectations of your success in life are so much higher. If you go to an academically selective school, your teachers and peers expect you to do well. So you want to, and you believe you can.

My children attend an "outstanding" state school. One of them is academically excellent and the other, bright but a bit lazy. Both of them will definitely get at least 5 GCSEs at 5-9, so there is no incentive for the school to "push" them to achieve their full potential in the way that I felt that expectation at my school. Their peer groups do not consider excelling at school to be "cool", quite the reverse in some cases. Teenagers generally don't like to stand out as being "different" to the group and therefore it is not desirable to have your hand up in class with the answer all the time.

It is also about resources, as other posters have said. With state school budgets slashed year on year, they obviously can't offer the well rounded range of resources like language teaching assistants that private schools can. Those things help pupils do better.

Having said all of that, a friend of mine from school sends her DC to state schools as she feels she left school expecting everything to drop into her lap and got a cold hard shock when it didn't. I send mine to state schools because I don't have £30k of clear income per year for 2 kids' school fees! But if I did, they'd be going private.

I agree with PPs - I think it's a sense that you deserve to succeed and do well. Call it entitlement or whatever, but being told repeatedly that the world is your oyster and you can achieve anything you want. Kids do get their expectations from their parents first and foremost and most parents who send their kids to expensive schools do so with the belief that they will go on to be successful. And the schools then coach them for success.

That then manifests itself in having higher expectations and high standards in many different ways - academic, sporting, social, and being around peers who also have this self-belief.

Confidence comes from speaking with authority, authority comes from being well educated and knowing your views and opinions will be listened to carefully and with respect.

Not all private schools are the same, some are better than others, the best will produce outstanding public speakers that speak confidently and eloquently about almost any subject (from a sound and broad education)

To replicate it would be a good idea to sign your child up to LAMDA. Teach them to speak to adults with confidence and eye contact, and listen to them intently as you would an adult. That would be a start I would think.

"I would advise all considering private school to ask for teachers qualification to be on display ( they usually are)."

Absolute nonsense! How would the qualifications be displayed when they remain in the possession of the staff? Where should they be displayed? What does a teacher do when they use several classrooms? Carry around a plaque?

At our local state secondary the classroom doors have a list of teacher names from that department on display along with which university each teacher attended and the degree(s) they did. There's also a sign on each door saying which book the teacher is currently reading/has recently read.

I was having a nose at the lists at an open day & it was interesting to see how many (high proportion) had gone to very good universities.

If you go to a good school (private or just a great one) and you are relatively clever or talented and work hard then the world is your oyster.

That said, I know many DC at my private school who have had every opportunity and still fail because of permissive parenting. I know many with no confidence and with anxiety because at the other end of the spectrum there are many arrogant, over confident DC who feed their ego by telling the others how much cleverer, sportier, richer etc. they are than the others. They are a chip off the arrogant parent block.

I have had to work hard to make sure my youngest's confidence is not in tatters whereas many of his friends are because of a rich, arrogant group of boys in his year.

Both my DC are quietly confident and are self assured. I think they are going to have a very healthy dose of self esteem. This has to do with doing well at school but also because they have a few hobbies out of school and really excel at them and they get a lot of pleasure and confidence from this.

My DD is in Reception at private school. Her confidence has improved massively over the last year.

I think some of the points made above have helped:

• lots of performances in front of adults
• small classes (often breaking out into even smaller groups) with lots of teacher input and high expectations.

But I think the key thing is that the school has a very strong life and identity, and they've managed to make each child feel like a full, valued member of that community.

The children are treated as valued individuals by teachers, classmates and older peers (and expected to be respectful back) and encouraged to participate fully and grow into the community.

I'm really convinced that 'valued community membership' is the key to confidence.

A state school can also obviously do the same things, although it's easier with more resources, engaged parents, and a more homogenous input.

Before I get jumped on (I'm sure I will), I don't mean homogenous in race or class.

They are just all bright, open-minded kids (academically selective school), who come from families with reasonable behaviour expectations (so the kids are willing to change their behaviour when required), and I think that makes it easier to form a community.

I think part of it is being told repeatedly what you are, how special you are, expectations places on you etc.

Didn't go to private school, but did go to a good grammar school. Every day you're told how bright you all are, you're the top 10%. A C is not a real grade. 11 A-B passes were the expected minimum GCSE grades. Wide curriculum - you're expected to excel in everything. It wasn't about if you went to uni, it was just the necessary next step. And then it was Oxbridge or Russell Group - ex polys weren't considered "real" unis.

As a result - not sure about my general confidence - I'm very confident in my level of intelligence and academic ability - went on to study at post graduate level etc. I'm generally aware that I'm one of the most well educated people in most rooms I walk into.

That breeds a certain confidence from a young age.

Now I have a 6 month old baby, and can't remember, you know.... words....🤷‍♀️

Simply put it's free market forces at work. People who can afford it wouldn't if it added no value. Private schools are motivated to innovate and provide greater value. So they do. There is also a holistic approach that isn't just about grades. It's about the out of class clubs and activities you can get involved in, also the general culture of the school builds confidence.

I was privately educated, but I think some of these things can be replicated and perhaps even exceeded within the state sector. First off we need to fund education way better than we do. Two areas I'd be happy to pay more tax for are education/ health, unfortunately not every fellow voter agrees with me.

Second parents need to be given more meaningful choices, rather than having to lump what they have in their local area. We spent around 4.4% of our gdp on education in 2017 tracking a general decline over the decades, health spending I think is at around 9.8%.

What I'd propose is some consultations within these respective areas and a bill proposed that percentages of our nations gdp be committed to health/education relative to our needs in these areas, to be met by increasing our tax burden with 25% of the sum supplied by the richest 1% the next 25% supplied by the next richest 9% (so in short the richest 10% would meet half the sum) and the remaining half funded by the rest of the general population. I'd put a block on generating this amount by increasing the debt.

I'd couple this with a massive reduction in corporation taxes, as we would generate far more in income tax as we'd make ourselves a very attractive and competitive country for large companies to settle here.

To bridge the attainment gap I'd encourage competition between schools that made children from poorer backgrounds more valuable, so if you have more of them, and you maintain and meet high educational standards your school gets more money. This would attract some of the better teachers.

People follow incentives and at the moment the incentives in education are all over the place and make no sense. I'm just a layperson, so doubtless what I'm suggesting may be unworkable, or would require more input and refinement from those in the field, but that is my opening salvo in tackling the problems.

"I would advise all considering private school to ask for teachers qualification to be on display ( they usually are)."

Absolute nonsense! How would the qualifications be displayed when they remain in the possession of the staff? Where should they be displayed? What does a teacher do when they use several classrooms?

I give you with a 3 second google list staff of two private schools including their qualifications and universities.

I assumed all parents knew this, it is statutory so not absolute nonsense at all. And indeed you can see those without PGCEs, happy hunting!

www.etoncollege.com/TeachingStaff.aspx
oxfordhigh.gdst.net/staff-list-2/

Regarding mathanxiety and the amazing curriculum and pressures that can exist in the US at the top public and private schools; our region also has large quantities of excellent schools of which the school my dds attend is one. However, although there are kids burning the midnight oil and succeeding in incredible ways in many fields, DH and I take a different tack. We are in it for the long haul and want to raise emotionally solid and stable kids so we don't allow too many commitments and there is absolutely no way my kids are staying at school till 10:30pm, more like 5:30pm They have a balanced life. We met at a very prestigious East coast college when DH was in med school. I was frankly unimpressed by the undergrad program that I was part of. My dd is aiming for the local public university which is one of the best in the world and a third of the price of most private unis.

I have been a recruiter for international companies and a college counselor and I know what they are looking for and so know it is not more of the same. So I don't allow my kids to take on unholy amounts of stress but instead our interests as a family are more quirky and community based. I know they would prefer high schoolers to have worked a paid modest job than a lot of the flashy stuff out there.because so many kids are in a herd.

My kids have lived abroad and attended schools where they had to survive and learn a new language. That will go a lot further than the insanity of barely any sleep for 4 years. We want to give our kids time to breathe, relax and figure out who they are in a healthy way. I think it is very important not to try and over produce your child and their life.

We are happy with our choices. Our kids go to Catholic schools for the community and support as well as the academic excellence and they are not as expensive as regular private schools due to parents volunteering time and talents in and out of school.

Also crew is not at the crack of dawn, it is straight after school. They start school at 7:45am and finish at 2:40 so plenty of time for sports and other activities and still get home to eat with your family.

My experience at an all girls independent day school - which was usually #1 in the league tables when I was there, so there was a self imposed pressure of not wanting to be the year that lost the top spot - with a relatively broad social mix, because there were a large number of bursaries and people on the Assisted Places scheme

High expectations. It was expected that we would get top grades, go to excellent universities, and that we would excel in our chosen fields. Especially in STEM - the school had a strong STEM focus and about a quarter of the year went to medical school. It was expected that we would be the captains of industry etc.

+1 about speaking with adults. Every pupil of about 12 was expected to take parents and children round the school on open days / evenings, and give them a full tour, answer their questions

We were encouraged to find our niche. Not sporty or musical / interested in drama? No problem. I took part in county public speaking and debating competitions. You could participate in Young Enterprise and Model United Nations. Pupils regularly participated in national Maths and Physics Olympiads. I was on the quiz team and competed with schools all over the north east, and ended up taking part in 15-1 schools TV competition.

Teaching went well beyond the curriculum. A-level English and History the teachers covered the core syllabus pretty quickly, so they could spend more time teaching us critical thinking and debating rather than just how to take exams.

And FWIW I didn't get a posh accent - I went to primary school in the suburbs but ended up with a Mancunian accent at senior school, because my school was in the city centre and there were pupils from all over greater Manchester and the surrounding counties. So I left with broad northern vowels!

At least SOME of Oxford High School have teacher training, seems to be totally unnecessary with Eton, which tells me all I need to know about class privilege within the UK system.

Imagine the scandal if a state school was full of teachers without qualified teacher training?

In 6th form volunteering was also mandatory. We had a partnership with a local primary school (deprived area of central Manchester) and a rota whereby at least one double free period a week you would spend time with pupils doing 1-1 reading coaching with them. I've no doubt it helped with the UCAS personal statement, but it was expected that we should be an active member of society and that was timetabled accordingly