to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

I agree xenia and in relation to psychology, I think emotional intelligence is one of the greatest factors in relation to whether you are going to succeed (so that would be things like drive, motivation from within, regulated emotions). i agree what you say about grades, though, and opportunity, and to get to that point for most students involves some kind of know how, which has to come from either parents or school or some other influence.

I think in relation to discussions about background, which socio economic group anyone falls into is fluid nowadays, and can change over a lifetime.

Nepotism, happens a lot outside big organisations and in the provinces. Amazing how many solicitors and law firms, are full of Daddy and Sons/Daughters. Similar with the banking and local building societies. I think media/fashion/auction houses are very similar. Plus all branches of the armed forces, especially the higher up the ranks you go. Similar with high ranks of the Police and Fire Service in the past. Strangely all associated with high numbers of Conservative voters and private school useage.

But funnily, we now have the Police, Fire Service and the Military, all beating the door down for kids like my son and his cadet friends. Why? I asked a Royal Navy recruitment officer Her honest answer, the likes of the Public/Private schoolboy/girl we recruited to officers, no longer join, and the grammar recruits are falling away, so we need a replacement. The new recruits from the "lowly comprehensives" have turned out to be just as good, sometimes better so we are aiming for them now

Sorry my last post was really badly written but hopefully comprehensible.

User1471, our local RI comprehensive schools sound alarmingly similar. We made the decision to repeat 6th form (and were fortunate that we could pay) after experiencing nine teacher losses/changes in two A-level subjects, within five months, plus three principals. One teacher swapped syllabus mid-year and taught the wrong English texts for several months before it was noticed, and then only after said teacher allegedly assaulted a student. That school's not on the special consideration for university list either. No library.

I know of several lawyers where they had the right name (from family working in the same firm). Not in the City, but major law firms in a major city. I don’t think it’s a coincidence those lawyers were hired by those firms. I’m sure they were good as well, but it’s more unusual for nepotism not to exist than not in many professions.

not to exist than for it to exist clumsy sentence either way

Can I politely disagree with both Xenia and Nevermind, I think a lot of what you say is wrong, many hard working people are in minimum wage jobs, Carers and lorry drivers/warehouse staff etc, many work awful hours and have little job security. Most come from poorer backgrounds. There 1000's of upper middle class and upper class people who live off Mummy/Daddy and/or Granddaddy or Grandmummy good luck fortunes.
Hard work isn't a guarantee to a successfully life, it's usually spouted out my the well off or middle classes, who then claim but my parents or Grandparents where poor once. Yes but not you. Plus they where probably better off the then really poor from the slums and their clearances.

Finally DS1 is off to Lincoln, they don't do written final exams in lots of their degrees, 2nd year finals is all about CV and work experience development and marked on that. 3rd year is a big oral exam, in front of panel of internal and external examiners. Why? Because it gives it students, mainly from working class and lower income backgrounds (only 3% private schooled students) an advantage when they hit the recruitment fairs and interviews. The university gets high praise for how well it's students are ready for work. Maybe more kids should get this support too.

No one is saying that hard work guarantees success and that only the successful have ever worked hard.

DB and I were state comprehensive school educated, SIL (state educated) now teaches in a private school and two of my cousins went to private boarding schools.

The main difference I have noticed is the assumption, for example, that if you want a career in healthcare you will aim for medicine, whereas at my school, despite having really good GCSEs when I suggested to the careers adviser that I wanted to study Physiotherapy, her attitude was to tell me it was oversubscribed and knock me down a peg or too, she certainly didn't suggest medicine, or even to choose A'levels that would leave that option open to me.

When I started Uni on a healthcare based degree (not physio or medicine) my Uncles first reaction, was "why had I not chosen medicine"?! He was the first person to ever say that, but too late.

My SILs school has clubs/societies for all the major career groups, medicine, Law, engineering etc. Therefore to consider these subjects and to feel "good enough" for them and confident enough is the norm in private schools.

Yes, I certainly don't think hard work is the only criteria for success. I agree. There is loads of luck. I am just about never ill (seen my GP once in 12 years). I am happy (lots of people conversely have mental health issues). Lots of things are due to luck although you can improve luck /chances by keeping trying when things go wrong.

It sounds like 935 (user)'s son will do well at Lincoln and that is what he wants. Good luck to him. it would be a pity however if universities became too divided by class however. 50% or whatever it is from state schools at oxbridge is much better than it was for example and the mixing with all kinds of different people at university is a good thing for most students (as for those who are prepard to take on the "loan " / graduate tax is moving away from home to grow up a bit)

I think lots of people 'work hard' (or perhaps work long hours) but it's drive, ambition and perseverance with some luck thrown in that often is the real secret to success.
I remember reading some thing about David Beckham's rise to success (and love him or loathe him, he HAS been successful). His former youth football coach said that Beckham actually wasn't the most naturally talented of the boys he coached, but that he was the one willing to put in the most hours of practice and that he often used to stay 1-2 hours after the practice session just to keep practicing his 'goal kick'. Now obviously he was also fortunate that there was a sports club he could go to and had parents who supported him but he did have personal ambition and he worked hard to achieve his goal.

I hate the "hard work is all you need" narrative. Some of the hardest workers I know are among the lowest paid.

I hate the hard work narrative because it misses out one of the biggest factors in any success.

Luck.

David Beckham got spotted at a Bobby Charlton soccer school, had his parents not been able to send him he may never have made it.

My own success is due to hard work, and luck that things have worked out for us. Other people engaged in the same type of enterprise as we did back in the day and it really didn't work for them for any number of reasons that hard work and determination could not have over come.

Back to confidence. My 17 year old came home last night to discover 4 of my friends-only o e of which he knew sitting round the kitchen table. I saw the brief look of horror cross his face before he cheerfully greeted everyone, offered to pour more wine, had a glass himself, chatted for 10 minutes then took himself off upstairs. Only I knew he hated every second. I have insisted on proper behaviour in social situations from when they were tiny- nothing to do with school. I'm a great believer in "fake it til you make it" in such situations.

A lot of it is down to hard work. I'm not naturally the brightest or best BUT ask me to do something and I will keep going until it's done.

We are moving to a new office. I might be the CFO but I was helping with the move on Monday night until 2am, took a car service home and came back in for financing meetings the next morning. I asked one of the admin to sort out ordering stuff for the kitchen such as cutlery inserts etc. She left work at 4:30pm. Zero mention of a prior commitment and nothing was ordered. Last night I had the container store design team come to our office and get it all sorted. All delivered at 6am this morning and the team from the store put it in place before 9am. You could say I didn't work hard because I had someone else do the actual work. OTOH no one knows or cares that I had the container store come in. I accomplished something in 48 hours that the assistant couldn't do. That's why I'm worth more to my employer.

I'm going to tell my (single, childless) brother that his parenting ideas are right on the ball! He's taken to greeting my DS age 2 with 'Hello Timmy*, how are you today?' and a handshake.
DS now greets all strangers with 'Hello, I Timmy, how you today?'

What's really got to me about this thread is the disparity between state schools. I went to state schools (admittedly outstanding ones in the home counties but remember going to a chemistry talk at the local university, there being 'applying to medicine' talks, and having a mock Oxbridge interview.

Sadly I see from facebook my old secondary is setting up a PTA because of budget cuts.

The ability to behave in any social situation involving adults is a useful yardstick for confidence. Knowing what you should do or say, like Bertrand's son above, has a value above rubies if many people lack those skills. On MN, you sometimes read about people who are reluctant to entertain, don't reciprocate hospitality, and won't attend anything more than a picnic in the park in case they have to talk to strangers.

It can be learned within the family or taught in small classes; much harder in larger groups where the herd mentality can develop quickly.

And individuals with poor social skills or bad manners don't often get singled out for advancement.

@user1471450935 I don't disagree at all that there are thousands of hardworking people on low pay. It drives me insane, the inequalities in our society. I don't think what I wrote contradicted that, and I wasn't agreeing with anything that contradicted it... I was saying that once you have the opportunity, then emotional intelligence is a huge part of success. Though once you have those ingredients then usually hard work is involved too. Most of us did more than 12 hour days ie 12 hours chained to desks or in meetings.

I also agree that lady luck comes into everything. Though I think also that people with confidence and high self esteem might be better at seizing lucky opportunities.

Confidence is important, but quiet self belief is just as important. So Ds 1 in Bertrand situation.would have said hello and then gone off. Ds2 would be like Bertrand DC.
But Ds1 goes off to numerous rugby games on his own and away games in fellow players cars. He went to a final all on his own, no parents at all. Only one of 25 in squad. He often misses family occasions to go support his RL team in Yorkshire and Cumbria. I have seen him since age of 12 stand and hold a conversation with a complete stranger at a rugby match and explain why thay where wrong.
But I seen him avoid people and their conversion, when he rightly knows nothing about what they talking about.
Whilst privately educated relatives just join in, even though they are speaking rubbish.
I think many think more of people like my DS, and think the privately educated person was rude or a bore. Or both

Though what you I know

I think self belief whether quiet or not is the same thing as confidence.

"I think many think more of people like my DS, and think the privately educated person was rude or a bore. Or both"
I have known rude people and bores from all educational sectors.

But being able to engage in a bit of social small talk is entirely difderent from barging in on a subject you know nothing about. And it is an absolutely vital skill which can be learned.

Admire you and your DS's achievement, as I do, User1471, is it possible that you see life in shades of black and white? Quiet self-belief, based on a secure knowledge of the rules and conventions at the event you are attending, and the transport arrangements for getting there and back, exudes self-reliance and competence in a young man. Loud arrogant look-at-me is the worst of (equally) the Hoorays and the hoodlums. Moderation...

ocsock
I meant to say though that the hell do I know at end of last post. Sorry.

I have 2 O levels to my name, rest CSE's. Only got functional English.Wife has 5 GCSE's. No degrees, both extremely shy, I milked cows moved across country. Wife lives 1 mile from where is was born.
Bloody hell it amazing he has got this far. I leaving this subject now to rest of you. You all are much more worthy and know much more than me.
Actually buying your own tickets, arranging your travel to watch the professional team you support, with 2 mates must show some confidence.
Sorry it's late and I am out of my depth, not middle class, or intelligent or got privately educated kids.
I just tried to show it was possible to do what the op asked.
Please ignore my ramblings, I can't complete against the people like Bertrand, Xenia etc. So I will lurk, we as a family need all the help we can get

I haven't read the entire thread, so my apologies if my views are similar to others.
Personally I don't think going private is the only way to have confidence.
My 11yr old son, was put into day nursery from 3mths old, we both felt terrible guilt but he enjoyed it. Since then he's attended lots of after school clubs, holiday clubs, sports and leisure activities all of which have helped him develop his own social skills which are quite frankly fantastic. Having the confidence to enter almost any situation and hold his own, being picked for the leading part of the school play and not being fazed in the slightest when facing straight on to a packed audience. He certainly doesn't get this form us.
Just to add, 2 siblings started the school last term as their parents could no longer afford private education, its now known that both children are really struggling to keep up, make of that what you will.

935, of course we are no more worthy than you! Just because I read every book going throughout my teens, typed 50,000 word books, sent them to publishers, had very literate parents etc etc is the reason I and similar reasons why some others passed a lot of exams and like churning out a lot of words. It certainly do not make us in any sense more worthy. We are all equal human beings.

However the thread is good as it is about what people can do to help their children. My family mined coal and the like and 2 generations ago got themselves out of poverty by passing exams and going into professions. It worked and it still works.

mrcharlie is right too. I was shy (in my private day school) because our parents didn't do much socialising and until I had experience of certain situations although I felt innately I could achieve a lot, I was not familiar with it. I build up to giving 50 public talks a year, on radio and TV (occasionally) etc etc and now it's dead easy to give a speech. Most things are just practice.