to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

Actually, the volunteering thing must have been a joke. Nobody could really think that.

There is something dreadfully distasteful about “peer-to-peer” philanthropy where private school pupils help state school pupils. It’s a terrible indictment of society if it happens at all. DC need to meet in situations where they interact as equals, at sports/scouts/school...

DS used to help me out when I worked for a charity. This included groups for the homeless, addicts, people with alzheimers, mental illness, kids with family problems.

He would raise money, help make and serve food at lunches, sell books and artwork at auctions, sit with group members and chat with them or ask them how their day was going.

Sheltered, no, and he knows that life isn't fair or all shiny.

Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities

Actual 😂

Talking from experience in DD at private school, she is only in year two but already the amount of communication with adults they have is great. Shaking hands with head master, having to look people in the eye when talking. They are also huge on sport and competition and shows etc which i think helps.

They have assembly every week which involves standing up and greeting headmaster for awards. It's just a lot more personal because there are less numbers. But i think it's a mixture of the after school clubs and competitions as well.

It is complex where we live. Someone said above no one on MN admits they have decent state schools but use private schools - well I admit it. We have some of th ebset academic schools in the country in state and private sector. NLCS - one daughter went to (p[rivate), henrietta barnet - state grammar and many many others. Spoiled from choice in all sectors around here from religious schools to laid back, to schools for not very bright to state grammars, the works. So the usual comparisons don't really work. You'll get children in £3m houses getting contextual offers for Bristol because they went to a state school in the bottom 40% of schools. It's a complex web of things.

Returning to the issue of the thread - how to you instil confidence, my parents sent us to a small private school where I was the best in the school just about in my year anyway so I thought I was pretty good. In fact I might have preferred more competition in a bi gger school but it certainly worked out well and that was my psychatrist father and mother who had done a lot of study of psychology within her teaching studies that presumably made that choice. They were specifically considering the individual child and what was best for them.

So the confidence - this is the fascinating psychological issue; first of all you get children with confidence and some very shy who hardly speak in state and private schools. My daughter did say at university she found most of the state school pupils said much less in debates and small tutor groups/seminars - just seemed to have fewer views, opinions. So I suppose encouraging loads of debate at home about things helps. We always seem to have massive differences of views from gut bacteria to politics, what is time to mental health and all the rest and what I most want in some ways form the children is that they form their own views and indeed learn to think. So if you are wanting to get that best out of your children give them a very wide vocabulary, read yourself (chldren copy parents and do as they do not as they say - your example is absolutely key); read every night to them when they are little; help them speak correctly; make them know how to behave and what to wear for just about any situation; help them learn to look people in the eye and speak clearly and write clearly - those last two things are some of the most important of all - that you can hear every word said, that you don't mumble, that there is total clarity of your speech and how you pronounce words.

(And yes no one could deny if you don't even have your own bed at home you may have problems - although mine have shared rooms to age 18 without any problems at all but not knowing where you will sleep at night and lack of security has a big impact on children which is a very different thing form learning to tolerate your sibiling in the bed room. No electronics upstairs. No TVs in bed rooms ever. Books, books, books)

I think minifingerz has hit on something when she suggests that parents who cannot afford to pay fees should attend open evenings and look what the fee paying option offers, if only to ensure they know what they should be asking their comprehensive to aim at. Sure, it will not all be forthcoming but if more in the middle knew what is considered routine and to be expected, then it would force the coasting schools to raise their game. Every school needs a slightly militant pushy set of parents who are happy to be the squeaky wheels that demand better outcomes or more choices or qualified teachers.

OK, so I accept that my DofE example was a poor one, but what are you saying, that every charitable /awareness building event around the country is worthless? If actually living in deprivation yourself is the only way to comprehend that people do live in deprivation then we are an ignorant nation as a whole.

The private school stereotypes being trotted out here are laughable. Believe it or not, not everyone is loaded or a 'Tim but Dim' type.
My DC are very well aware of how fortunate and privileged they are. They know that one of their grandfathers was a coal miner and the other was one of eight siblings who shared two bedrooms in a two up, two down house between them. Yup, landed gentry us...

user
There is something dreadfully distasteful about “peer-to-peer” philanthropy where private school pupils help state school pupils. It’s a terrible indictment of society if it happens at all. DC need to meet in situations where they interact as equals, at sports/scouts/school...

Too many wrong assumptions here... no "helping" involved and why make the (wrong) assumption that they are interacting as anything other than equals? It's simply a cross-section of local schools sharing their facilities.
Why do people assume all children who go to independent school live in a vacuum? DS has friends he knows from Scouts, from his part-time job, local neighbours etc and they all get on fine. It's often adults who want to make an issue where there isn't one. I find kids these days are much more open-minded and unprejudiced that their parents.

The other side of which is, that parents need to pull their weight too. Say no, you must complete homework; you can't have a TV in your room; you must read the paper, follow the news, and no, you're too young to stay out until 11 when you have school tomorrow. Unless parents model discipline, the school has no chance to impose it.

Every school needs a slightly militant pushy set of parents - yes, the poor under-resourced teachers who are already working 60 hour weeks are going to really appreciate that...

OCSock
Unless parents model discipline, the school has no chance to impose it.

I couldn't agree more.

There are two private schools in my local area, one caters very much for children who require learning support, dyslexia etc, the other does the same but on a much smaller scale. The larger school to retain its charitable status allows state schools to use its sporting facilities when not in use by its own pupils, but you can really see the divide on the rare event they play sports together, (most private schools only play sports against each other, rugby, hockey, tennis, swimming) the private school has all the best sports kits, provides 'match teas ' for all parents and pupils , good mini bus etc, no jumpers for goal posts ! My daughter knows 2 pupils at the private school who having just got to 17/18 and passed their driving test have now been bought a Mercedes...a bloody Mercedes as a first car!! After a life time of full time work, I have never had a new car...that is just obscene , what the hell were the parents thinking?, no observation of social deprivation here. She has also told me that a lot of the female pupils have eating disorders due to peer pressure, apparently it is the worst thing in the world to be fat, they train in the school gym and swimming pool whenever they can to keep their weight off, mixed values ?

I know that is going to be a criticism, and I'm not trying to put hard working teachers under increased pressure. My thought was rather that the pressure should be directed at a political level, so that funding is provided on a national per capita basis. Where we live (rural, coastal, poor) each secondary student receives only about 60% of what is spent educating a London child. Which translates into not enough books for a whole class, and nothing left over.

Rubbish- it's basically being said by some that all children from wealthy families are confident purely because they are from wealthy families. Wealth doesn't necessarily mean confidence installed in your child. I went to a private school as a child and had little to no confidence.

I will say the majority of parents at Ds school are very confident. But I don't think this necessarily passes onto children automatically.

It's such a stereotype saying everyone is rich and entitled. Some are obviously very wealthy but others live in modest homes, go on holiday in the uk and drove modest cars and live modest lives. This is something I like about the school, it's varied.

I agree- I think confidence is often apparent in pupils at private schools because there are smaller classes so more time to spend with individuals, more time to nurture pupils, more opportunities to debate, and install a positive ethos within the school. Less pressure from OFSTED for paperwork so more time spent with pupils. It is the ethos installed within the school and passed onto pupils. I think they have so many opportunities with arts, sports, forest school, trips etc that pupils can explore so many avenues with what they are good at/can excel at so this installs confidence in them.

Ds is in reception and talking to my friends with dcs in states schools I am very surprised how much slower my ds has had things sent home like reading books, phonics books. They already have writing books and spellings to learn. Ds does not. I think they begin to do things at a slower pace and probably have more time to really teach these things to pupils at their own speed so they begin with the self confidence and a can do attitude right from the start. I think they spend especially the first year really installing a positive attitude in pupils and enthusiasm for learning because they can. They aren't under the same pressure as state schools. So as the years move on the children have this strong foundation to build upon.

Again rubbish every school is doing this. I wish they were. Not every top state school is as good as private schools. For instance our outstanding primary school down the road, which is very desirable to get into is coasting. It's results are good but even the OFSTED report states they should be better given the demographic of the school. They are only marginally better than the other school down the road who has a very mixed intake and is rated good.

I think people are conflating wealthy and privileged. They are not necessarily the same thing,

Our child is about to finish school, and is partly privately educated. Of his peer group, all can drive and most have cars, but the only expensive cars belong to the overseas students. Ours all have 15 year old Corsas with telematic box insurance policies and limited mileage to keep the cost manageable. But there is no real public transport network, so it's essential for getting to and from school, unless the parents are still doing the school run.

Privilege. I know quite a few of the type and it's just an innate knowledge that you're at the top of the rung. No striving to prove it, it is known.

Confident parents teach children to be confident just like parents are the first teachers to their children when it comes to manners and kindness towards others.

The conflation of wealth and privilege.... hmmm. Anecdotally, there are people who are very good at gaming the system to their advantage. A family of my acquaintance have put three children through a major public school, but the DC attended top Scottish universities because they also hold European passports via one parent so are exempt from the tuition fees.

And some people rent or use a relative's address to play the system to get into a good state school catchment area. Or are lucky enough to be able to spend £££££ on a nearby house. Or find God at a convenient time to get into a religious school.

Deidre- nature, nurture. My parents tried to install confidence in me but outside influences, experiences, friendships, sporting and academic failures as I saw them taught me otherwise.

My point exactly; it's all gaming the system. If you don't understand it, then the resentment builds, because you can see the Holy Land but it's beyond reach.

I think private schools, like state, can vary a lot and shouldn't all be put in the sane basket.

Ds private school is selective and gets very good results. I would say there a real mix of wealth. We are probably one of the least well off I have met so far. Both sets of parents are working full time, yes in very good jobs, to afford the fees. It's one of the best value for money.

Down the road there is an extremely expensive private school which is more known to take international students. One of the mums of a dc in my ds class has a child at this school too. She says the difference is immense. The parents there have extreme wealth, private jets, one parent works, multiple homes, multiple holidays, the best cars. The school is non selective and is known more to take pupils if they have the money. It is also known to take pupils with SEN and has a dedicated department for this. It is said that those who don't get into ds school go to this one.

I went to my private school because I had SEN at 13. It was none selective. It had a massive range of pupils some of which I know suspect were there because they didn't get on in state schools. It had high numbers of international pupils. I remember overhearing that x s parents had gone to the headteacher to ask for an extension to pay the fees. Parents were very mixed and many definitely went without to afford it.

the DC attended top Scottish universities because they also hold European passports via one parent so are exempt from the tuition fees."
That won't make them exempt from fees.......