to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

Topcat- surely that's not the case in selective private schools though? They select the very top % of high achievers. So if these pupils were at the local comp they would certainly be amongst the top set or they wouldn't get through the selection process. Therefore, your argument that these pupils would fail is flawed.

I don't agree confidence comes from families. It's the nature, nurture argument. Once a child is at school they are spending more time in school with those experiences and influences than out of school. Those experiences will have a massive impact on their confidence levels.

Oh course the majority of private school children's families live in affluent areas. Stands to reason really. However, in our city children are certainly sent to private school because they didn't get into the local excellent school. Happened to my sister and several others I know as it was a major baby boom year. There are simply not enough places.

For us- Ds went to the private school because we were right on the border of the catchment for the outstanding school but were unimpressed with their results anyway. They were only marginally better than the next local school with a very diverse catchment. The school was coasting along. We were out of catchment for all the other excellent primaries in the city and didn't want to move or make the initial massive outlay to move into the catchment which would give us no guarantee to getting into the school anyway. The catchments in this city change incredibly from year to year.

The argument isn't null and void because as the data shows, students who would have got into selective schools get the same results in the in good to outstanding schools comps ( which now make up the majority of secondarys).

Ohhh again, the local outstanding wasn't good enough for me and mine or there are not enough places.

" don't agree confidence comes from families. It's the nature, nurture argument. Once a child is at school they are spending more time in school with those experiences and influences than out of school"

For a start most time is spent at home, if you include a long school day for a private day school, even then the child spends just as much time in the day at home, and the majority of weekends, and then the extra long holidays.The confidence doesn't come from the families because of nature vs nurture? But the families nurture far more than the school.

The environment in which the child is raised brings about the confidence.

BUT it often masks an inner terror or fear. I have known several kids bullied to the point of suicide/turning to class A drugs at some of our country’s “top” fee-paying schools. My bff went to an exclusive private school and has tons of social confidence but can remember terrible pressure at school to “be the best”, so many girls got modelling contracts etc that those who didn’t felt they had failed, anorexia rates were really high etc.

That was certainly the case in my school

Top of the league tables, every leaver to a RG university, quarter of the year Oxbridge

At least a quarter of the year also had some form of ED. Two girls didn't actually take their GCSEs as they were hospitalised in in-patient units. Few girls with modelling contracts - would go to London to live in the model agency flats in the school holidays. Remember one was on the cover of the Sunday times style mag as a rising face. She probably had an ED if I remember rightly. Quite a few self harmers

I certainly left with a legacy of feeling like a failure if I wasn't over achieving. But I loved my time at school and don't think I'd have achieved anywhere near as much as I have without it. I have very happy memories of school - but I withstood the pressure quite happily, whereas others didn't

Christ,
Going back to original OP ideas,
Our 2 go to a inadequate rated bog standard comprehensive, the likes of OC and others happy describe as failing and not good enough for their kids.
Eldest, just sat final A level, this morning, is shy, but confident in his own way and at the right times, IYSWIM.
So played sport since 4, free, at primary and secondary and out side school too.
Football, cricket, netball (high5's, even though only boy in league at 9-11) and rugby league. Won local schools cricket and netball, at primary and got player of year for both. Played rugby at secondary, National schoolboys champions, in Year 9 2014, and reached final in 2015, lost. Played union from 2016 to this April.
Never cost us more than £4/week, usually less than £100/year.
Did DofE up to silver, only 4 and 2 from this school at bronze then silver. Had to do it with main well off and privileged kids from local market town, 35 miles away. Many from private schools.
He and best mate ended up with 2 extremely privileged, privately educated girls, in a team, ended up doing 6 miles more than other teams as the girls wouldn't go past sheep, cows, in water!

All teams leaders said his best mate and him, where the ones they went to when things needed doing, they did a deal with other girls, boys put up and took down tents and washed up, girls cooked. Also on each night in the cold and rain, those two would, round up all the cooking paraffin stoves and build up mock fire, and tell stories and sing songs to keep every one going.

He was offered two apprenticeships, one welding the other one maintenance fitter, with HNCs. ended up doing A levels. Off to university, in September, 1st in family, not Oxbridge or RG, but top 40.

He is a volunteer Police Cadet, runner up for Cadet of Year, can talk to High Sheriff, Chief and Deputy Chief Constables, also spent 12 hour nights working with kids in care, took 3 on holiday activity weekend, got commendations for how he handled the weekend.

His younger brother does similar,

Both can speak confidently on sport and cadets, and current affairs, both have gone on numerous school trips. But equally, unlike their many of their privately educated peers, they know their weakness, and only talk about it when asked to or when it is relevant to a conversation they are having. They also know from attending such a school, that many have more than them and others have less, but most importantly, every one has something to add/contribute to life

They are used to working in a community, and that community only survives because they all work together, even when some don't want too, so you may need to assist them, possible carry them, because next time, it may be you that needs to be carried. Which is just like the world, they will both end up spending their adult lives in.

So just give your kids a chance to find what they enjoy and are good at. Listen to them. It doesn't have cost £17000 a year.

Also much of the confidence from private schools, is over confidence and/or arrogance. The quietly confident child/adult, who knows what their strengths and weakness are, and are open and kind and helpful to others, will go much further then any know it all.

Finally, money doesn't make people happy, the happiest people I know, are happy in their own skin, and other have little compared to many others, but know exactly what they wanted from life and have got it.

I would rather talk about the confidence point because it's interesting. So I suggested being able to talk and write well and having good general knowledge and experience of public speaking - if you are trying to do things that might help some private school children be quite confident. Love is also important and stability and lack of change in your home life whatever your income level.

Of course we all agree most parents who pay school fees are better off than those who don't although plenty of us don't have things like savings or pensions but certainly are not having to move house because we cannot afford the rent.

I don't agree that children in my children's previous fairly academic schools would be in lower sets at comprehensives but there are plenty of private schools where anyone can get in whatever their intelligence level and they are comprehensive other than in relation to money.

There are also gender issues too - some girls think they are useless and too many boys think they are God's gift to mankind whether in state or private schools which is one reason I bought single sex schooling for my girls as it means girls are always top of every subject and you probably have nor confidence when you go off to university.

The argument isn't null and void because as the data shows, students who would have got into selective schools get the same results in the in good to outstanding schools comps ( which now make up the majority of secondarys).

Would the students in the top set at a non selective be streamed for every subject? Would they be pushed beyond the core syllabus?

Quite a few independent schools have switched to the iGCSE or IB examinations because they don't think the standard GCSE and A-level syllabuses are challenging enough, and don't give students enough prep for working at UG level at uni.

Certainly at my selective indy we spent the minimum time possible on actually covering the core syllabus to pass exams and much more on more advanced stuff that would stand us in good stead for Oxbridge interviews or give us the critical thinking or analysis skills for self study at university. There simply weren't any students who were working at a C level at A-level - if you didn't get a top A grade at GCSE in the given subject, you wouldn't be able to proceed to study that subject in sixth form

I don't know if that would have been possible if the classes were mixed ability - but I have no experience of mixed ability classes so can't pass comment on whether or not the experience would have been the same at a different school

"Quite a few independent schools have switched to the iGCSE or IB examinations because they don't think the standard GCSE and A-level syllabuses are challenging enough, and don't give students enough prep for working at UG level at uni. "

IGCSE is easier than the new GCSEs, IB standards are not as high or in depth as A level for the "advanced subject", but offer broader for the standard. The "standard" IB is somewhere between GCSE and AS level rather than A level content.

user's son sounds lovely and I suspect he is like a lot of boys at private schools too. Most children in both sectors think everyone has something to contribute. In fact one of the nice htings about private schools (and I hope state schools) is they can find that one thing the child who thinks they are good at nothing is good at.

that is another point about confidence. A child who seems to be pretty bad at everything if you can find one thing they are really good at, a hobby or whatever that alone can really help them feel better about themselves and probably also have a knock on effect in their other subjects at school. user is happy with her choices and I am happy with my choice of paying schools fees (paid that last ones last year though so am an ex private school parents now the twins are at university).

In terms of careers though being in a top 5 or 10 university not top 40 is going to get you certain high paid jobs rather than just confidence although you need both otherwise you mess up interviews - which might be why I had 25 interviews at university until I actually got a trainee lawyer job offer. I was obviuosly really bad at the interviews despite the private school.... my tutor thought it might have been because I was 19 in year 3 of university (graduated at 20) so was younger or may just have been that we were in the middle of an awful recession; or just that I was really poorly performing in the interview.

I think confidence is a really tricky thing to define. Being able to speak up for yourself is important- and it is actually something that happens in most schools nowadays-loads of presentations and talking through work. However, for me confidence is more than that. Confidence is about knowing that you can back your ideas up if asked to. But it's also -and this is where I think private schools do have the edge- about thinking that you have the right to be wherever you are. It doesn't cross the mind of an Old Etonian, for example, that he doesn't belong in the board room or parliament or Oxbridge. Because he's been told all his life that he does-and he can see people like him there already. It's difficult to replicate that sense of belonging.

"about thinking that you have the right to be wherever you are"

THIS! I don't think its the school that bring this feeling, they merely reinforce it from home.

I live in a grammar area, and that "right to be there" thing is incredibly apparant. Disadvantaged kids, however clever they are- just don't think they belong there. The mother of one of dd's friends asked me where she could get 11+ work books. I directed her to Waterstones, and discovered later that she had found the shop so intimidating she couldn't go in.

My point about JRM stands here.

He went on a national TV show and talked about coming out of the customs union and brexit made misleading and erroneous statements on how it would work.

He was on specifically to discuss Brexit, and hadn't even bothered to do the basic research about the points that he was making.

But he was confidently making them.

BertrandRussell - not thinking your child has the right to attend a GS and finding Waterstone’s intimidating are separate, though related, issues arising from the grossly hypocritical situation in which Kent state primaries are not allowed to prepare their pupils for the Kent test that filters children who are prepared and sends them to GSs. I’m not opposed to selective education but I am most definitely opposed to the unspoken rules of Kent selection that favour the children of the educated/informed/invested/rich over all others.

Confidence is a strange thing, I think.
But eldest when joining the Police cadets, was the first ever group, not been cadets for over a decade. So every one who joined, was the child of a police officer or staff. Many where from the upper ranks and from more privileged backgrounds/schools, out of 15 who started, 2 years ago, and the 12 who haven't left for university, only 3 are still there. None are officers DC, all go to rough bog standard, avoid schools. All volunteer for the crappiest and often boring duties. all are confident, in a humble way.

But I think the difference is these 3 see the police or similar career, as a way out of their "lesser" lives, a way to improve themselves. They have been introduced to other forces too, Border, Navy/Air force and Prison services. Been given access to ABP and other companies they would never met. In many cases asked about joining Graduate courses if going off to university or looking to join officer ranks in the military. These doors would never have been opened to these 3, but the fellow "more privileged" cadets, moved on, as they had bigger and brighter things lined up.

So like TOPCAT and BERTRAND, I do think privilege counts a lot, but given the chance, "lesser" kids can easily pick it up, and probably run further with it, given half a chance, sadly many don't ever get that chance, which is crap for them, but even crapper for society, as the next great person could be the one who is lost in the present unfair system.

198m I can only speak from experience and opinion.
😀

I agree with user. A lot of people have also used the armed forces too as a way out of poverty and into a different life over the years. I sometimes wonder how my mother managed it. I think it was partly that she was quite bright. Secondly her own mother had taken herself off to India in 1921 to work as a nanny (with no training other than being one of 10 children and an older one - i.e. loads of experience) and presumably saw rich families; then her husband died leaving her with the baby (she was school caretaker by 1939 and remained widowed/single for life) so I suppose had more time to help her one child apply for grammar shcool where everyone was not well off as it was a very poor area of the NE so it would have been a relatively pure grammar school system. Or may be it wasn't that at all - she was a difficult woman and may be my mother did well despite not because of her mother. I think also that she knew she had moved for work probably allowed my mother to move for education and work too rather than you never leave the network of streets they had all lived on since about 1860. Or may be it was just chance. My mother was dancing on tables like Shirley Temple to adoring relatives (she had 52 first cousins) so that might have given her confidence too - in fact she was much less shy than I was as a child but I think that was because she was amongst all those people; whereas when she moved away for work we were more of a smaller nuclear family. Or may be it's just innate - some people are quiet and shy and others are not.

The more interesting point for me is the one above which is that I feel able to be here, that there is nothing to stop me being here as a lawyer, that I never held myself backl I had loads of failures and just assumed I could always rise above them and keep trying again and again and again in the face of failure, problems, deaths, divorce and all the rest. Internal self worth perhaps which I doubt is much to do with schooling and more to do with being loved as a child.

Very much a snapshot of 4 schools (2 private, 2 state) i know well through my own children and children of friends:

• behaviour that os expected at private schools is seen as special at state schools with rewards etc attached (being kind, being polite, foong homework)

-loads of awards for meaningless stuff at state primary schools (doing homework award, politeness award, kindness award, wearing clean uniform award, not spilling food down themselves award - so many and so trivial obes that the children don't appreciate getting an award at all). if you alreafy get at least an award per week, why work to get another one? less 1-2-1 time (less adults per child) in state schools

• special attention only for underachieving children, and extremely high achievers in state schools. the rest of the class is left to their own devices as they are doi g ok (1 teacher and a parttimd tA only have so much time - not the teachers fault at all!)

this is a snapshot from 4 schools only, but the differences are huge

They do seem to instill healthy self belief in pupils. I suspect its all the extra curricular stuff like debating and so on that gets kids thinking and forming opinions on stuff as well as excellent teaching.

I remember your thread a few months ago User. As I recall, everyone on that thread was full of admiration for your sons, and were unanimously delighted for you when the elder got his university offer.

I regret whatever it is that makes you feel I have been condescending on this thread about failing schools not being good enough for my child. There has been enough in the pot for us to have made the decision to buy an additional academic year 12 plus Y13, at a very average independent, after losing three to poor teaching and worse behaviour. I am unrepentant about our choice and would make it again.

OCSOCK
Sorry I wasn't personally having a go at you, I was saying we are stuck at the type of school you bought out off. We can't and haven't, so surely the fact my kids have done what the OP originally asked from the sort of school, most on here move heaven and earth to avoid, means something.

Imagine coming on here time and time again, to see the type of school your kids and all their mates attend, but described as not good enough for everyone else's kids and therefore my definition, that my kids aren't good for their kids either. Even though both will do anything to help, any one, eldest spent 50 minutes the other sat with a elderly lady, who had fallen over, and comforted her whilst waiting for the ambulance, but I have seen people avoid him when in his school's uniform. 99% of the kids at our school are great, and deserve just as much as any other child. I don't go around slagging off private school users, or saying they are all elite and idiots, but many private school users, maybe not you, slag my kids and the school they use off, often to my bloody face.

I just think I was trying to prove all kids are equal. Maybe don't slag off your nearest state secondary's, and say they aren't good enough, when they sound 100 times better then ours.

Sorry if I upset you, but I get sick of people on here and in real life slagging off kids, just because they attend a state school you and they don't like.

Well said User, I have had the same reaction when I took my son out of private as he was bullied to the extent of self harming as the bullies were staff children.

It was only meant to be a temporary move but it turned out to be the best thing that happened to him and is thriving and confident with far more opportunities and gcse choices than St Mediocres. He is not the first the Head has mopped up due to bullying in the Indies having to dig into his budget for counselling for ds and others which I am grateful for.

However it is seen as the bottom of the pile in the town despite well above average results at GCSE and A Level. The uniform alone means they get blamed. An example of this was at the bus stop a while back 2 from the “Superiors” school were vandalising the stop and a member of the public pounced on my ds blaming him and calling the police. Luckily he was sensible enough to record the vandals on his phone and go back into school and tell his form teacher plus there was cctv footage anyway but it made my blood boil that the kids automatically get blamed just for being at that school.

I may still however have to go down the Private route for ds2 eventually as he will not cope in the big schools as great as they are.

I didn't see slagging off on this thread, We were just asked where private school children get their confidence (those teenagers that have it). No one should jump to conclusions about whom to blame based on clothes etc. I have always told my children it is vital to gather evidence and don't jump to conclusions about things. However the things that help children grow in confidence and be comfortable in all situations suggested on the thread work whether you are in private or state schools - pushing yourself, public speaking, meeting lots of different people, learning to speak and write well, going to the places and doing the things the people you hope to work with will do rather than feeling "out of place" or that something is " not for people like you are". This is why even basic things like being taken once to a theatre by the school (so later you know what to do in theatres) or to a formal concert (not to clap between movements within a concerto and usually not to clap in a church etc etc etc) is helpful for private and state school pupils.

I still think a lot of it comes down to innate personality - having some shy and some not shy children (and having been a very shy teenager myself and yet all of us only ever went to fee paying schools).

Not slagging on the thread but real life and the belief there are no opportunities for culture, public speaking etc. Our school regularly participates in debating competitions, maths challenge etc and does well often thrashing the private schools. They are also off to Rome and Naples and those are in receipt of free school meals get it for free as they do for all trips which are offered regularly. The drama performance and music recitals that take place every term are wonderful and can assure you the students who choose to attend know when to clap! However I do appreciate we are lucky and not all state schools offer such brilliant opportunities for those who want it.

I very much agree with Xenia that children who go to private schools are introduced to a far greater range of social situations from a young age where they are given the opportunity to learn expected and appropriate behaviors. It’s the sheer range of quality experiences in which children are expected to participate, and grow, that gives them the confidence to manage life with aplomb.

It is not essential to attend a well known private school to develop such skills, but it certainly helps.

I must admit I can see why Kent has caused an issue but in such areas much more needs to be done to open up grammars to children with potential no matter what their background.

I think admitting that no test is tutor proof would be a good start. maybe the test providers could issue help papers to every applicant, ie how to do NVR. Exam technique and so on.
The way it seems to be done in Kent is not good.
I am very lucky where I am and we have excellent schools in our area and we border grammar areas. Having a dc who is going to sit the 11+ but without the pressure is a blessing.

I also think confidence is something that is skin deep. Many many confident people hide massive anxieties and worries. You could say certain kinds of confidence come from a lack of awareness.

I will never forget my DM taking me into the HOP and the house was pretty much empty except for one man with his feet propped up on the wool sack. - Nicholas Soames.