to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

But it meant £3k (European fee scale) per year, not £9k for an English student. It's a significant saving x 3.

Ithink minifingerz has hit on something when she suggests that parents who cannot afford to pay fees should attend open evenings and look what the fee paying option offers, if only to ensure they know what they should be asking their comprehensive to aim at

OCSock, that is a good point, but I think minifingerz wanted the parents to see the private schools in order to provoke revolution.

There's a HUGE difference between legitimately reducing your uni bill because you have a European passport and lying about your address to get into a good school....

On OC's good points and what parents who cannot afford fees can do I endorse putting your back into it. It was not some magic fairy that got my children all their grade 8s in music and their other things - it was sitting there night after night supervising practice after a 10 hour working day when I'd rather put my feet up; it was not by chance they never handed i homework late when they were at primary level but because we made sure it was done; it was not by chance they were never late for school and never took a holiday in term time; it was not by chance they were reasonable readers - it was because no matter how awful or ill or tired we felt night after night we listened to their reading; not by chance they respect school rules because we would always support the school.

The thread is about what advice we can give to those who cannot afford fees to give children the confidence some private school pupils have. So things like making sure they always know how to behave whatever the situation, how to speak to people, how to greet them (of course huge numbers of state school pupils can do that too).

OC I think it was said have a look at what the good private schools are doing - that's very helpful. Look at the subjects everyone has to do for GCSE at the better private schools and make those same choices in the state schools; look at the hobbies the children do; look at what actvities they take part in.

There really are a lot of ridiculous stereotypes being trotted out about private schools.

Believe it or not, not everyone is loaded or a 'Tim but Dim' type
^agree with this. Most parents at DDs school are professionals (e.g. dentist/Dr/solicitor), small business owners and farmers. There are quite a few parents whose children attend on bursaries. There's the odd estate owner/landed gentry, but really most people are "normal"- yes, they are comfortably off but only a minority are very wealthy.

The children are not all entitled brats; nor are the majority stupid or unintelligent who only get anywhere due to their parents money.

That is not to say that they do not have advantages- they usually do- but things are quite the caricature that many wish to believe.

Our DCs went to state primary before independent prep and secondary school. There was one mum I was friendly with who was very clear that she wanted the benefits she saw those at the independent getting but was very upfront about the fact that they couldn't afford the fees for their three daughters. Her response was to give up her modestly paid job and to make her daughters' 'extra-curricular' experience her full-time job! She was publicly open and honest about it. For about seven years, while they all went through state junior school she spent her life managing tutors, ballet, tennis, gymnastics, athletics, singing, drama and instrument lessons for all her daughters. They were entered into every local sporting, music and drama festival and competition and frequently featured in the local papers. Although it seemed a bit OTT and over-scheduled, in reality the girls were only doing what they would have done had they gone to my son's school. At age 11, they each won scholarships/ significant bursaries to the Independent school. One has now gone onto do Medicine at uni. They are all lovely girls.

So, going back to the OP, I guess that's one approach...

Certainly a parent has to be more proactive in the state sector. For a start the kids often finish at 3pm whilst I see the private ones traipsing home at 5.30pm. Extra-curricular excellence is up to the parents, too. The dcs have always had private music lessons - but otoh so do many private-school pupils.

Someone suggested upthread that state-school parents were jealous of privately-schooled children. That assumes every private school is better than every state school. If we lived in London and had £££ would I have sent the dcs to Westminster? Yes, probably, because that would have suited them just fine (ds says his Westminster-schooled friend seems to have had wonderful lessons). But would I have forked out to send the dcs to the nearest private school? Not on your nelly. Nice uniform, exotic school trips, parents' choir, parents' ball, yada yada, but academically absolutely not worth it.

My friend who sent her dcs to a (fancy) private school said that the best result was the holidays to friends' houses her dcs got. When I last spoke to her, her ds was living in a friend's apartment on Central Park South in NY. The dcs' friends' parents are more likely to have a caravan (+ hairy legs and sandals).

"That is not to say that they do not have advantages- they usually do- but things are quite the caricature that many wish to believe."

WEll you have just described the children of affluent parents, it isn't a caricature at all. THE MAJORITY of children in private education are the children of affluent parents which allows them to be confident because of the advantages that the affluence buys them.

The fact that everyone here is conflating affluent with being a multi millionaire demonstrates a huge lack of understanding of what this point is.

its the background, not the school that instill the confidence,, there are of course exceptions to every rule, but they are just that in both the families that can afford private education and the type of person that develops from those families in terms of confidence.

Oh and just a thing, private education does protect those who would not have succeeded otherwise. Go look at the degree classifcations awarded to those with 3 bs from comps and 3bs from private, the comp kids almost always do better.

The results between most private schools and the top two sets of most comps are no different in numbers of A-C passes/A*-As etc. I think many private school parents know that their kid wouldn't get into the top sets at a comp, so they buy them the privileges and their success.

If your kid wouldn't cut it in a comp and you sent them private, then their success is bought, not earned.

I have no problem with that, but please stop pretending otherwise.

“That is not to say that they do not have advantages- they usually do- but things are quite the caricature that many wish to believe."

I don’t deal in caricatures. Although one of my favorites is the cheerfully impoverished family chucking the tent in the boot of the beat up old Volvo and tootling off on a camping holiday to Cornwall which will cost significantly more than a package fortnight in Lanzarote.......

I came on wanting to read the more recent interesting posts from genuine posters and find more delirium from @topcat1980 and @bertrandrussell! Are you two married to each other? And do you have nothing better to do??!!

Bertrand - better surely to spend more in good taste and ecological awareness than to spend less on trash?

Highlight my “delirium” , please.......

IrmaFayLear - I am also deeply allergic to the sort of private school with all kinds of ego-flattering add ons (exotic school trips and parents’ balls being a particular bugbear) and that shelter DC from real life but which are not academically enriching.

:bertrandrussell most of your posts are inaccurate and inflammatory, as you know, but just as one example, camping anywhere could be done much more cheaply than going somewhere where you need to fly during a school holiday. I have stuff to do though so this will be my last post today. Hope you have a good day.

I just wanted to add that private and public schools do see to inculcate outer confidence, BUT it often masks an inner terror or fear. I have known several kids bullied to the point of suicide/turning to class A drugs at some of our country’s “top” fee-paying schools. My bff went to an exclusive private school and has tons of social confidence but can remember terrible pressure at school to “be the best”, so many girls got modelling contracts etc that those who didn’t felt they had failed, anorexia rates were really high etc.
Watching this thread with interest because I really wanted to raise confident kids (I am not confident) but I think so much of it is hard to “teach” unless you can model it, or unless it’s a personality trait.

My favourite caricature on MN is the same as Bertrands, that your average private school kid is the product of parents who just cared more than other parents and went without in order to provide the very best for their progeny.

In fact the majority of private school families have both the private education and all the trappings of affluence. Its where the argument about buying a house in the right area for a good state school falls down, most of the private school children in the UK live in affluent areas with good state schools too, the ones who live near failing schools are in the minority. As are those whose parents wear sackcloth and ashes for 14 years to get their kids through.

Topcat - true, although in our area the good state schools are massively oversubscribed and children are often (as in every single intake for years) offered failing schools three bus rides away instead of the state school they can walk to in 10 minutes. That's what happened to us. We live very near a great state secondary, and not far from one with a good reputation (that I didn't like at all) but were offered a school three bus rides away with a failing reputation and 1800 pupils (it's since closed) I know DS2 who has SEN and is very sensitive to overstimulation would have died there. In his private school, he's happy and confident. But yes, we had the choice, as family helped out. We do scrimp, but all the MN chicken dinners in the world wouldn't cover the cost without family help.

most of the private school children in the UK live in affluent areas with good state schools too

Absolutely. Although both primary and secondary are massively oversubscribed. The year we didn’t get a primary place 750 children applied for a 60 child intake.

The secondary has 2800 pupils on a site for 1800.

Both extremely good schools but not enough room.

Mina - I understand that there are some cases of this, but its not that common 80% of students in the UK get their first choice school.

In London its more difficult, especially inner London, I think Hammersmith and Fulham managed 47% this year, but the vast majority of people do not have your experience.

Its the same with the thing about people that send their kids private being average, but making sacrifices to do their best for their kids. It can't possibly be so, the average school day fee is £17,000, the average bursary near £6,000, just over 1/4 of kids get a bursary, but only about 50% of those get half fees. This means that the vast majority of parents are affluent enough to afford a significant fee per year, and whilst it might take some sacrifices to do so, they are hardly eating beans on toast by candlelight as they would like to paint.

The people I know who have gained bursaries are not really poor. One example is a couple of gardeners at a country house, with tied cottage. All very lovely but they don't earn much. BUT, and this is an enormous but, they are both from very comfortable backgrounds so the dcs have super holidays and one set of grandparents has holiday house overlooking sea in Cornwall. It seems a bit off that a lifestyle choice attracts a bursary.

I also sat next to a school bursar of posh school at a thing recently, and they were telling me about the number of "marriage breakdowns" that they'd seen over the years, with the wife left utterly penniless. They said it was funny how both parents were amicably turning up together at school events and then completely reconciled when informed that more proof was needed than "He's moved out".

A school bursar I know told me of appliactions for bursaries following the financial crash.

Cause the household income had gone down to £500,000 a year.

The Threshold for Bursaries is mostly £90,000 - or in the top 5% of earners.

I got a full bursary for DD and we were probably on the poverty line.

That's great, but its only about 1% of students that get a full bursary.

Our school had to ask people to apply for the bursaries as no one was - ranged on income so bursaries were 20%-100% of total fees.

Threshold at ours is £70,000 and those under £25,000 get 100% bursaries and cost of uniform/school trips etc.