to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

"And bertrand wasn't saying it is all to do with wealth, she was arguing for quite some time that the children all come from the same socio economic group, which is a different point entirely. And not correct"

I did not say socio-economic group. I said social group. A small but significant difference.

topcat1980 I can only speak to our experience but is very definitely that private school is giving our DC a range of opportunities that is increasing confidence. They used to go to a good uk state school that we were all happy with, but a move and a new role meant that they were put into British international school. We are not wealthier, we are no more or less engaged in their education and actually the expense for us in UK was music lessons and it still is. However instead of one type of music lesson there are three, with many more performance opportunities. Both DC are notably more confident, visiting relatives have commented on this, they are the first to put there hand up to volunteer at large public gatherings when volunteers are asked for. The reasons for their confidence have all been listed many times over on this thread. As someone who had always disliked the idea of private schools and I been forced to accept that they can be very good for DC and I need to put my prejudices to one side.

I'm not prejudiced against private schools, I just think that a lot of the reasons for the "confidence" is bunkum. Especially as in the vast majority of state schools in the UK the same opportunities can be found, it really isn't that rare to get more than one type of music lesson ( the school that my children attend/ attended has a full and active music dept).

The confidence comes from being affluent and yes that means coming from a family with above average income and the opportunities, and foundations that gives you.

I think it depends which school they go to, but the school my daughter goes to does encourage the children to be confident. They are taught to debate, they are taught to speak in public. They are taught that fellowship is important just as much as other areas of their education, so the relationships with other students are very good, which increases their confidence at school. They also have good relationships with staff.

Having said that though, she's not that confident, even with all the assistance she gets.. although she does have Aspergers (she may be a lot less confident if we didn't send her to the school she is at, and that's nothing to do with it being private, if there was a state school that had the same ethos we would have sent her there, as we are not rich). She can stand up and talk, just doesn't like doing it. I think it depends on the child really.

There are not a lot of rich parents at the school she is at, they are just normal. I think if it had been a city school, especially a London school then that would be very different and those children would come from very different backgrounds so would probably have a lot more confidence.

BertrandRussell - replying to your comment from earlier upthread re. performing. It's not about acting and dramatic performing per se - it's about getting used to presenting yourself to an audience. To be professionally successful, most people have to do that in one form or another - whether it is job interviews, applying for funding, speaking in front of staff - you have to present yourself confidently. The good schools recognise the aptitudes of different children and don't make a shy retiring one the star, but they do give all of them experience of being in the spotlight.

Yes and only private schools do any of the things mentioned.

So what other measures of confidence are there? We've had public speaking, and presenting yourself to others. What else? I would add having opinions, but the self confidence to admit you were wrong and change your mind.

Afraid I just read the first post. I went to fee paying school as do my children and all their cousins.

1. Some are not confident. I was very shy as was one of my sons (until university). I got over it but the school didn't stop me being shy. I was so shy I would cross the street if a neighbour were coming alone the same side to avoid speaking to them; so private school clearly didn't prevent that!
2. On the other hand at age 5 I was having regular eloctuion lessons and doing speaking exams when I was a bit older where we had to learn poems off by heart and recite them etc and that kind of thing probably did help.
3. I never feel worse or less than anyone else. That may just be because I was loved as a child or had security or just know from external verifiable things that I seem to be pretty competent at a lot of things though so does not necessarily relate to school . It may also be because my parents (who went to state grammar schools and then to university/further education and then professions) always treated everyone pretty fairly whoever they were so we had a sense of equality and treating people well no matter who they were. Again that is not necessarily just private school values.
4. Perhaps private school children are allowed to fail more, aren't necessarily always the best and know they have to work very hard to achieve things whereas may be some state school children win prizes and are told how wonderful they are even if they are doing badly.

There are probably lots of other reasons.

In terms of what to help your children with (i) help them learn to speak correctly and write correctly (I had to correct a terrible written document this morning and that person clearly had been to a terrible school (AND they were a lawyer at a not very good firm) and that way of writing is clealry going to hold them back a lot). (ii) let them do something where they can perform - speech exams or music exams (I got 4 grade 8 music exams eg which probably helped) (iii) have them read loads and loads of books, listen to radio 4 news programmes when teenagers and read a decent newspaper - we get the FT and Times at home.

Topcat
If you were performing 20-30 times a year it would make a difference, but that's a very specific example, not indicative of the average private school

I can assure you that DS does have this many opportunities in a typical term and this is completely separate to any timetabled lessons. This is not a specialist music school, and he's not even a music scholar, so this is very average and typical or whatever you want to call it.

I think the simple act of putting children in an educational environment where they are shielded from deprivation, and the awareness that they are part of a small privileged group who will go on to scoop up a disproportionate number of social rewards, probably can’t help but instill a sense of being ‘speshul’.

Maybe parents who can’t afford private education should take their children to open days at private schools to let them see what they’re up against. Actually it would be good if people did this in huge numbers - might start a class war when kids realise just how disgracefully unfair and unequal our system of education is.

Should read “and where they will develop an awareness that they are part of a small privileged group who will go on to scoop up a disproportionate number of social rewards, probably can’t help but instill a sense of being ‘speshul’.

A lot of private schools in local communities (like ours) are in partnerships with state schools and will invite parents and their students to bigger events, so the smart parents will look out for these opportunities to come to UCAS evenings or careers fairs/ lectures or open music/ sport events.

Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities.

Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities.

Are you seriously suggesting that a few hours volunteering in a shelter once per week is enough to say a privately educated child isn’t ‘shielded from deprivation’?

Regarding the confidence thing, dd recently took a piano exam. She goes to a comprehensive school. The girl taking the exam after dd was in the uniform of (v v expensive) girls’ school. The girl’s mother was talking to the exam officer there, and it turned out that dd and this girl shared the same piano teacher. The woman and the girl were so confident - talking about how talented the girl was and how she excelled at everything and how complimentary the piano teacher was about her, that dd started to go whiter and whiter and the exam officer thought she was going to be sick!

Anyway, fast forward to results and dd did very well indeed. I told piano teacher I was surprised as dd was rather psyched out by his other pupil and her dm. He revealed that uber- confident girl only got a pass!!

So, I do think that mere state mortals do tend to hide their light under a bushel; perhaps this makes them come across as dim or lesser.

Ah, I see the insults have started, with

Topcats' Tim nice but dims
and
Minifingerz speshul

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
― Socrates

(but perhaps you won't be familiar with that quote as classics isn't widely taught in the state sector iirc?)

What form would this 'class war' that you are hoping for take, minifingerz?

Volunteered at a homeless shelter v being homeless. I am not against private schools and think ghey are amazing but i live a sheltered life and admit it. I dont get ehy others dont see it. We have 4 children living in hotels, one refugee in temporary accommodation and loads in private landlords that keep getting moved. When we do the year R 'special places', there will be a children in each class that doesnt have a bed. So sharing single with a sibling or sleeping on crates with a cot matters on which gets stacked in the day.

When I say we I mean at the state school.

I don’t care for “speshul” at all. But there are plenty of private schools that cater for the Tim NicebutDim types. As there are others for future Senior Wranglers. Nothing wrong with that. Isn’t that the whole point of the private sector?

“Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities“

Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities

I made one of the early posts on this thread which referenced being shielded from deprivation. I was being lazy and didn’t illustrate my whole point- I didn’t mean to suggest that private school kids have ‘no problems or issues’ that is of course patently untrue.

BUT they are shielded. And this comment illustrated pretty well what I mean. Volunteering ‘for DoE’ is not having your confidence knocked by living in poverty now is it?

Not that all state school kids live in poverty- but they aren’t all underconfident either...

'Shielded' - from domestic violence, chaotic homelife, death of a parent, parents out of a job ... Private school doesn't give you a pass.

There's a lot you can't shield your children from, and loads of children have never seen poverty, homelessness or need close up.

@gentlygently
@wonderwine

I have PMd you both

“There's a lot you can't shield your children from,”
There’s a lot you can. Many children live in a bubble. Many parents want them to.

Also the 'shielded from deprivation' thing is a myth. Loads of DofE students volunteering at homeless shelter and similar charities.

Being wheeled in to help out - like a school trip to a museum, to essentially 'visit' the poverty or deprivation - is very much being shielded from it.

And I say this as someone whose (young) DC are completely shielded from it.

If it's not part of your community, you don't have the first clue.