to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

I think there is a huge range of private school pupils. Obviously at one end we have the true poshos (quite a small number, really) who ooze generations of privilege, whether they have much money or not. They seem to care not one jot for anyone, especially aspirational middle classes.

The vast majority of private school people are the middle-class stereotype of Mark Warner holidays, Boden, London suburbs, etc etc. They often have dcs that are "confident" as their parents are a bit pushy and always keen to be doing the "right" thing (but just a leetle bit better than anyone else...).

The academically successful types are generally not the ones rollicking around Rock in Cornwall or baying in Ski resorts; all the very clever (privately-educated) kids I know are rather quiet and self-effacing.

“Oh and its amazing how many people on MN "scrimp and save" to send their kids private, and go without a foreign holiday to send kids to private school, the average day school fees £13,194, so for two kids you need to have scrimped and saved more than the average salary (before tax) in order to send them”

Yep.This.

The other thing that fascinates me is the number of mumsnetters with that much money available seem to live clustered in the catchments of “dire” state schools, thereby forcing them to go private. Which, considering that almost all “dire” state schools are in areas of significant deprivation does seem a bit odd.....

There are loads of excellent reasons to go private. Many private schools are fabulous. Be delighted you can afford it if that’s what you want. Just don’ weasel about it!

Oh yes, all those people with 13k a year for school but only local sink schools. Yeah, yeah.

Don't mind if you make the decision, go for it, but don't weasel about it.

The other thing that fascinates me is the number of mumsnetters with that much money available seem to live clustered in the catchments of “dire” state schools, thereby forcing them to go private. Which, considering that almost all “dire” state schools are in areas of significant deprivation does seem a bit odd...

Are you really so naive that you think everyone gets their catchment school?

We put 5 on our list when we applied for our daughter. The 5 absolute nearest in order of distance. We got none of them. We got given a school 30 minutes away.

the average day school fees £13,194

We pay nowhere near even half that figure for a year.

I always enjoy the, "I'm sure the local comprehensive is lovely, but it just wasn't right for my dcs as they're very academic " We got the last laugh

Also, regarding "sink" or "bad" schools: I have recently been working in one such school. True, the GCSE results are awful. But that's nothing to do with the building (very nice), facilities (excellent), teachers (really dedicated). It's because the pupils are mostly your classic white underclass. No diversity - no ambitious immigrant families. If you got every pupil and swapped them with the "leafy" comprehensive pupils a few miles away, the results would just swap from one school to the other.

"Are you really so naive that you think everyone gets their catchment school?"

80 percent of all secondary school children get their first choice, so yes again the people who don't get their first choice catchment school are in a minority.

“Are you really so naive that you think everyone gets their catchment school?“

Not everyone, no. But the vast majority, yes.

80 percent of all secondary school children get their first choice, so yes again the people who don't get their first choice catchment school are in a minority

My DD is in primary school. Having just checked the stats, in our LEA for her year of entry only 68.9% got first choice.

It is still naive to think that every can choose a school (or indeed 5 schools) and they always get one of them!

"I'm sure the local comprehensive is lovely, but it just wasn't right for my dcs as they're very academic "

Yes that one is funny.

Seriously just admit that you want to buy your kids a head start, there is no shame in it.

"Having just checked the stats, in our LEA for her year of entry only 68.9% got first choice. "

So still a significant majority?

Oh and we know what stupid mistakes people make on applications, my local school turned down 400 children this year who put it down as first choice, but when you find out that people put it down as first choice from 4 miles away ( in a London borough) with 5 secondary schools between their house and the school of choice, kind of indicates this was pie in the sky.

This thread started off as an interesting, balanced discussion about what it is that builds confidence in children yet seems to have gone the usual route of slagging off state/private parents and pupils, depending on which side of the fence you're on... how sad.

Oh and we know what stupid mistakes people make on applications, my local school turned down 400 children this year who put it down as first choice, but when you find out that people put it down as first choice from 4 miles away ( in a London borough) with 5 secondary schools between their house and the school of choice, kind of indicates this was pie in the sky

Absolutely. But the system doesn’t work when you DO fill in the form correctly and you don’t get any of the schools you put. Of course we lost out on one because it is selective on faith grounds, but it should be a reasonable assumption if you put the 5 nearest schools you get one of them! (Nearest being 0.4 Miles)

There is, as far as I can see, no “slagging off”.

“Absolutely. But the system doesn’t work when you DO fill in the form correctly and you don’t get any of the schools you put. Of course we lost out on one because it is selective on faith grounds, but it should be a reasonable assumption if you put the 5 nearest schools you get one of them! (Nearest being 0.4 Miles)”

Yes it should. Your situation is incredibly unusual. [Sad]

Not in some parts of London

Many of the better schools have such a small intake after siblings and those that are given priority

Ds got my last choice and was only put on the list to avoid an even worse school. Time out spaces for children in year 2 ffs yet the school down the road was completely different. This school somehow received a very good
ofstead report while it being acknowledged that it struggled with disruptive pupils and results were not that good

It has certainly improved in the last five years as the area has changed. Schools have become a good house marking selling point

@Cblue - I've also PM'd you for dyslexia tips, as DS needs to get his act together for A levels!

It is a culture that starts at a young age. My so. Is in the nursery of the prep school he will be going to and even from 2 they play games where they sit in a circle and take turns standing up in the group and introduce themselves/ talk about pets/ what they did at the weekend. This culture is encouraged the whole way through.

It is deemed positive amongst your peers to do well in tests and exams, speak up, put your hand up, be clever and hard working. You are not berated by others for trying to be your best as this is a culture they are used to and parents expect and friends of parents expect etc.

It just cl becomes the norm and builds all the way through with drama plays, choir, music recitals, success in exams.

That is a big chunk of what you pay for.

Lastly being the best you can be and being inspired happens at private schools.

It's not terribly fair but such is life. I know people that don't do private school but have a better car and holidays than me but that's the decision I've made as it's important to
Me as I came from it and can see the value.

If you want to emulate, you could add in extra curricular drama, scouts, brownies, summer camp, competitive sports etc etc and your non pressured expectation.

I am fascinated by this obsession with public speaking. As I said, it’s great for those that can do it, but must be hell for many.

For what it’s worth, I think happiness and privilege are the main rivers of confidence. I can’t see much difference in confidence between my own privileged state educated children and their privileged privately educated friends.

I think 'public speaking' is being used as a descriptor in this context to mean all sorts of occasions when children are encouraged to 'speak up and be heard/listened to' rather than the more formal 'presentation to 300 people' sort of thing.
A person needs to be very confident in their own ideas and beliefs first before they are able to explain and articulate these to others publicly.
So many jobs require the ability to communicate well with others, even if it is in relatively small groups. In the industries I've worked in there have always been people 'stuck' in junior positions as they simply didn't have the skills/confidence to e.g. present their ideas to a group/meeting or commicate and contribute effectively as part of a team. I worry these days, as I see so many young people who seem unable to string a sentence together without padding it out with words such as 'like', 'y'know' and 'stuff' (instead of being specific).

"I can’t see much difference in confidence between my own privileged state educated children and their privileged privately educated friends."

Me either really.

The way public speaking is described by Wonderwine isn't anything to do with private school.

I really object though to the idea that state schools don't encourage children to do their best and all sorts of other things repeated here by private school parents.

This : "Lastly being the best you can be and being inspired happens at private schools. "

As happened in all the state schools my children attended, and like I said, students with the same grades as private schools from state ones do better at uni.

I'm not criticizing people who chose to send their children private btw, just the nonsense they come out with in order to try and justify it.

Cases where one child fails to get all 5 of their choices at secondary are very rare, 80% of children get their first choice secondary in England and Wales, 94% in London got one of their 6.

So many jobs require the ability to communicate well with others, even if it is in relatively small groups. In the industries I've worked in there have always been people 'stuck' in junior positions as they simply didn't have the skills/confidence to e.g. present their ideas to a group/meeting or commicate and contribute effectively as part of a team.

Well said. It's not an "obsession with public speaking", it's all about confidence, expression, communication, etc. Plenty of people have problems even in small groups - it's not all about huge audiences. I can talk the hind legs of a donkey in a 1-2-1 situation, but even when I'm in a meeting with just 2 or 3 people, I really struggle and end up a jibbering wreck. And yes, it's definitely affected my career. When I was at school (1980's comp), there was no emphasis at all on group speaking/debating nor presentations etc.

I'm really pleased that my son's school take it really seriously and had them doing presentations etc right from the first week, and have carried in on throughout later years, in virtually every lesson, but also they have a "debating society" one lunchtime per week which is massively popular and run by sixth formers (so no staffing issues!). His self confidence and speaking skills were really poor when he started but now he's happy and confident.

Actually, I think that all schools generally put much more emphasis on speaking than they used to. I remember being surprised at my first year 7 parent’s evening when the teacher asked my child how she thought she was getting on,. Wouldn’t have happened in my day!
It’s a shame that the “speaking and listening” bit of GCSE English was removed.

Agreed, kids are doing presentations a lot these days in school.

All these points are made by people who have their children in private schools... what do they think happens in the majority of states?

What happens again and again on this thread (and others like it) is you get posts like the one by mouseistrapped above. Quite bizarre the way some people are utterly convinced that all state schools are full of rough kids tormenting anyone who is clever and there is no competition or drive (by teachers as well as pupils) to do well.

I agree that privately-educated children are often self-assured and have a “sheen” if you will, but to suggest they are all enjoying a Dead Poets Society academic experience is absolute rot.